sgoetzin Posted March 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted March 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the upper side of the negs you see some strange "light blotches". The problem appears with the negs exposed with my M6. Those exposed with the R8 are OK. Might this be a problem with the curtain ? Any idead or suggestion is welcome, Serge Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/80039-strange-blotches-on-negative/?do=findComment&comment=847222'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 20, 2009 Posted March 20, 2009 Hi sgoetzin, Take a look here Strange blotches on negative. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Irishimage Posted March 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted March 20, 2009 It looks to me as if stray light is entering from underneath the camera, Just a guess .. but could it be the baseplate on your M6 is not light tight or stray light is entering through the hinged backdoor ?? Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted March 20, 2009 It looks to me as if stray light is entering from underneath the camera, Just a guess .. but could it be the baseplate on your M6 is not light tight or stray light is entering through the hinged backdoor ?? Noel Thanks for the hint. Will have a closer look. What is strange, not all the pictures on the same film have this light leak. Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_d Posted March 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted March 21, 2009 It could be an agitation or a chemistry issue. I had a similiar problem with a roll that was the top roll in a processing drum and I did not add enough chemistry to submerge the film 100%. Shoot a roll of transparency film and see if the problem goes away. This will narrow it down to the camera or the processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 21, 2009 Share #5 Posted March 21, 2009 First off try re-fixing the film. It can happen with too weak/old fixer or not enough agitation. Soak the film in fresh fixer and see if it clears it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 21, 2009 Share #6 Posted March 21, 2009 Simple. You are over agitating. If you had a light leak of any kind the film edges would be fogged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted March 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks to all of you. Some more details, the film is the TRI-X 400 I use since 4 years. I have a lot of experience concerning the developpment of this film and also use a Heiland TAS processor for agitation. I never had any problems. Chemistry is always fresh before use. The TRI-X that shows the problem was developped with 2 other films shot with my R8. Those 2 films are OK. That's why I excluded a development problem. I will shoot another film today and will developp it with great care. I'll keep you informed. Thanks all your feedback, Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishimage Posted March 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted March 21, 2009 Thanks for the hint. Will have a closer look. What is strange, not all the pictures on the same film have this light leak. Serge It could be your hand had covered the source of the leak on some of the frames. A good way to check this is to point the bottom/back of the M6 to a strong light source and expose about 5 or so frames, them cover the base/back of the camera with a black cloth or similar material and expose some more, the results should prove one way or the other if a light leak is the problem. Best of luck Serge. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewittehd Posted March 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted March 21, 2009 Agitation - developer concentration problem. Alternatively spool was not completely dry causing film to swell and obstruct developer circulation. Regards, Jean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookeye Posted March 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2009 If you look close, it seems as if the 'blotches' are areas of pallor (less silver) just opposite the holes in the side of the film. I think this may be a fixing / agitation issue as the liquid pouring through the holes in the film causing uneven washout. What James said about the fix sounds reasonable. A fresh fix might solve it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted March 21, 2009 Thanks to all of you for your answers. Here is a little résumé: Possible problems: 1. Light leak, stray light : problem with the base plate / back of the M6: This is the worst case for me. 2. Not enough chemistry - upper spool is only half way souped in chemistry. Don't believe it. I make 500 ml of XTOL at 1+1 for a 2 spools 135 mm Jobo tank 475 ml. I fill the tank until I see the chemistry 3. Overagitation: I rotate 1 full minute, 1 minute pause and 4 rotation every minute. Worked so far for all of my films souped in XTOL. Why should I have a problem now ?? 4. Weak/old fixer -> I refixed a part of the film (tested the fixer with Tetenal Ag-Fix test stripes : Ag = 0 and Ph =4, to be sure the fixer is fresh). The streaky blotches do NOT disappear. 5. Spoul was not dry, film swelled and developer circulation was weak at those areas. NO. 6. Light leak upon during development. Never had this before. Why now. 7. Developer was bad. I used the same bottle of XTOL for the development of 2 Superpan 200 at a ratio 1+1; no problem for those. So I exclude this one too. By the way, agitation was identical to the one used for the TRI-X 8. Bad film: Why not For me, only 1 or 8 and to a lesser degree 6 might be the problem. I will developp a FP4+ tomorrow in XTOL 1+1 which I exposed with my M6 today. Will check that spools will be dry and will pay attention to use fresh chemistry, will developp in a 2 spool Jobo tank and won't put the film spool on top. Will also reduce agitation to 30 sec, 1 minute pause, and 3 rotations every minute. I'll keep you informed of the results. Thanks again to all of you for you interest. Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookeye Posted March 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted March 22, 2009 You canrest assured it cannot possibly be light streak due to problems with the base plate. That would have induced blackening also on the SIDE of the film, i.e. outside the image area and along the edge of the film. Also you are having pallor, not blackening. But please keep us informed, we are curious as to what may have caused it ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted March 22, 2009 You canrest assured it cannot possibly be light streak due to problems with the base plate. That would have induced blackening also on the SIDE of the film, i.e. outside the image area and along the edge of the film. Also you are having pallor, not blackening. But please keep us informed, we are curious as to what may have caused it ;-) The FP4+ is just drying. Once it is dry i will inspect the film in detail to see if the blotches are there. A first overview shows no sign of these blotches, so I suspect a bad set of TRi-X films. But as I said I have to wait until the film is completely dry. i'll keep you informed. Thanks for your help and your interest to all of you, Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted March 22, 2009 The film has dried. I inspected it on a ligh table + Rodenstock 4 x. No Blotches. Here are my conclusions: 1. As the FP4+ is OK, the M6 seems also to be Ok. I exclude this on. Ouff. 2. Development problem: I changed the agitation from 1 minute in the beginning to 30 sec. I also used a Jobo tank for 2 films 135, putting the FP4 on the bottom (not on top). => have to run a test with the Jobo tank for just 1 135 film, to exclude light leak at this step. 3. Bad Chemistry: I used same bottle of XTOL, idem for stopper and fixer.FP4+ is OK, so I exclude this one. 4. Set of TRI-X films are bad. I think this is the problem, but I have to expose and develop one TRI-x of the set I think is bad. I feel like Sherlock Holmes. Once I have run the test, I keep you informed. Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted March 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted March 22, 2009 I've had a very similar problem which took a long time to discover the cause since it occurred very intermittently. In my case it was due to not using enough volume of developer to include a safety margin above the spiral. You need at least 2cm to 3cm of developer above the spiral to avoid uneven development around the sprocket holes. This might be your problem since the uneven patches appear to be only on one side of the film. Another cause might be using a single spiral in a two or more spiral tank without the additional spirals. The turbulence caused by the spiral sliding in the tank as it is inverted can cause over development around the sprocket holes. In this case both top and bottom of the frame shows uneven development. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tknowmuch Posted March 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted March 22, 2009 Sad to say (and happy to say for the rest of the Tri-X world) I don't suppose for a moment that the Tri-X batch is bad... I'm sure it will prove to have been something to do with the relative activity of chemistry in line with the sprocket holes. I had something very like this - a banding across the film - and it was only in watching a piece of exposed film clear in a measuring cylinder that I saw how the passage of the clearing action is affected by proximity to sprocket holes. For me, as it turned out, it was old fixer. It may be developer or fixer in your case, and/or something to do with the physical arrangement of spiral/levels etc, but I don't see it being the film. I would say add a bit more chemistry volume to the tank and hope to never see this again. Failing that it may be something to do with agitation, but, as you have no doubt used an agitation regime for years with no problems, it's hard to imagine what to do about this if it was... (I assume, since it was mentioned, that it wasn't the fixer or it would have cleared when re-fixed.) Good luck! Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted March 22, 2009 I've had a very similar problem which took a long time to discover the cause since it occurred very intermittently. In my case it was due to not using enough volume of developer to include a safety margin above the spiral. You need at least 2cm to 3cm of developer above the spiral to avoid uneven development around the sprocket holes. This might be your problem since the uneven patches appear to be only on one side of the film. Another cause might be using a single spiral in a two or more spiral tank without the additional spirals. The turbulence caused by the spiral sliding in the tank as it is inverted can cause over development around the sprocket holes. In this case both top and bottom of the frame shows uneven development. Bob. Hi Bob, Thanks for your input. However, I am quite experienced in developping 135 films. I always use 500 ml for a 475 ml Jobo Tank (2x 135 films) or 300 ml for 250 ml Jobo tank and I verify that the liquid is even with with the upper level of the pouring hole. I never had a problem. What's so strange about this, is that I have 2 TRI-X films of the same set, which shows the problems with the blotches. The films have been developped seperately, one in January and one now. And both have the problem. I accept the fact that I was dreaming while pouring the developper into the tank but not twice at 2 months time difference. I also ALWAYS use two spirals in a 475 ml Jobo tank, even if I only developp one film.(did the mistake once) I shot another TRI-X this afternoon with my R8. The film is drying. Once I get the results, I keep you all informed. Hoepfully it's the film. That would be the easiest problem to solve. Thanks to all of you, Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoetzin Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted March 22, 2009 The TRI-X shows the same blotches as the first one. For me there is no doubt. The set of TRI-X films is bad. I close my "investigations". A great thank to all of you for your help and your hints to isolate the problem Serge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted March 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted March 22, 2009 How is it that the film can be bad and give you uneven development round the sprocket holes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 22, 2009 Share #20 Posted March 22, 2009 Definately not 'bad film' but some problem in the processing. If the refixing didn't work then it's clearly the development in some way. Mistakes happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.