M8 - Will high iso performance improve in Future?

[Jamie Roberts]

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Actually, the 5D with the 85mm f/1.8 prime isn't bad. But the 1D series with the 70-200 f/2.8 looks absolutely frightening and intimidating when its pointed at you.

 

...but of course, with the 70-200mm IS lens, many people don't ever see me point that thing at them

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[msr]

 

Magnum Photos :: Magnum Ad

 

It'll take a few seconds for the page to load. Under photographers, click on Harry Gruyaert. Click on Portfolio and you'll be able to see his "Rivages" series. They're beautiful grainy seascape images.

 

—MItch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

 

Thanks for the heads-up regarding Gruyaert's work. Those images were quite painterly. The film, or high ISO grain, becomes a "plus" in the making of these images and echoes the pointillist technique of late 19th century painters.

 

It is really interesting to see what beautiful images can be generated from a camera when it is put into the hands of a skilled photographer such as Gruyaert and Alex Webb (also on that Magnum site).

[sean_reid]

Although it is true that Mitch may not be looking for the best tonalities (in the final image he had envisioned), I'm from the school that it is easier to remove information than "adding" some (especially when facing uncertainty). By capturing more information, Mitch has the option to move, push around, degrade, or remove this information as he wishes or envisions. Yes, it is more work in post-processing but, should the final "interpretation" or "vision" that Mitch had in mind not turn out to his liking (or that of a client), he would be able to take his image in a different direction without any compromise and with more possibilities. Just my $0.02.

 

Please note that I'm using Mitch as an example just because he posted above and "Mitch" really is just a generalization for "photographers".

 

JR,

 

I understand, of course, and that has been a safe approach to working for a long time. What I'm suggesting is that sometimes a photographer doesn't want to play it so safe. He or she may want to, as Robert Bergman sometimes says, "print the negative". That is to say, make the kind of picture he wants from the beginning and simply let's its nature (from the start) carry through. A lot in this depends on how clear and decisive a photographer can be about how he wants the subject to be recreated in the picture. If he is unsure about what kind of print he wants to make in the end then you're quite right. But if he knows quite clearly what he wants, he may want to go after it directly from the beginning.

 

I've got to reread Mitch's response above but I believe that he's in the latter category right now.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

I'll be honest, I was hoping the M8 would have a one stop advantage on my RD1. The Kodak sensor specs would indicate that this would be so. While I didn't expect the noise performance of the 5D (pixel size rules when it comes to noise) still I was hoping for a bit more. It will be interesting to see what your results will be with regards dynamic range.

 

Rex

 

Hi Rex,

 

An extra stop is nice to have, I agree but the M8 is competent at ISO 1600 which is all one can say of virtually any digital camera except for certain newer Canons. The M8 does much better than the DMR in this respect.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[innerimager]

Hi Rex,

 

An extra stop is nice to have, I agree but the M8 is competent at ISO 1600 which is all one can say of virtually any digital camera except for certain newer Canons. The M8 does much better than the DMR in this respect.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean- On the F-mount side, the Fuji S3 1600 Iso is much better than just OK, in fact it even tolerates deliberate underexposure to an effective 3200 Iso with very good results. Of course it's only 6 MP for resolution. The D2Hs is also excellent at 1600, but is 4MP. Both greatly exceed the other Nikon except perhaps the D50 which I haven't shot......Peter

[sean_reid]

Sean- On the F-mount side, the Fuji S3 1600 Iso is much better than just OK, in fact it even tolerates deliberate underexposure to an effective 3200 Iso with very good results. Of course it's only 6 MP for resolution. The D2Hs is also excellent at 1600, but is 4MP. Both greatly exceed the other Nikon except perhaps the D50 which I haven't shot......Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks. If you get an M8, it might be interesting then to see how an ISO 1600 M8 file (down-sampled to 6 MP) compares to a 6 MP S3 file at the same ISO. Fuji got a good rep. for strong high ISO performance early on and I'd like to test their newest DSLR some time.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[fotografr]

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Fuji got a good rep. for strong high ISO performance early on and I'd like to test their newest DSLR some time.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Yes, Fuji even managed to get excellent high ISO results from a couple of their P&S models.

[innerimager]

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks. If you get an M8, it might be interesting then to see how an ISO 1600 M8 file (down-sampled to 6 MP) compares to a 6 MP S3 file at the same ISO. Fuji got a good rep. for strong high ISO performance early on and I'd like to test their newest DSLR some time.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

HI Sean- I agree, downsampling the M8 (and yes I will have one just a matter of time!) will be a good comparison. Let me also broach another noise technique that may relate to the M8. I shot the Kodak 720X for indoor sports, it was the high Iso king in it's time. The kodak sensor also had dramatically wider dynamic range than any of it's competitors at the time, (and only the S3 is comparable now). I tried an experiment in which I utilized the Kodak's ability to recover blown highlights by over 1 stop, and overexposed by 1 stop at say Iso 2400, pulled back the exposure in Photodesk, and found the resulting file had less noise than a properly exposed file at 1200. I called it "push-pull" which probably was a confusing name given it's meaning in film development, but I never used film so what did I know? Since we have a Kodak CCD in the M8, this may apply. On the other hand, I don't believe that the recovery of the blown highlights would yield as good a file in terms of color gradation and tonality, less important when shooting hockey, say, than fine art! best...Peter

[albertwang]

...but of course, with the 70-200mm IS lens, many people don't ever see me point that thing at them

 

Yeah, we gotta be scared of them Cannon assasins. They lookz like SWAT.

[rvaubel]

Hi Rex,

 

An extra stop is nice to have, I agree but the M8 is competent at ISO 1600 which is all one can say of virtually any digital camera except for certain newer Canons. The M8 does much better than the DMR in this respect.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean

 

Don't get me wrong, the files that I have seen @ ISO 1250 look good to me. Plus the noise that is there is "good noise", very film like and not annoying or mushy.

 

In the final analysis, I would have preferred a 8.0 mu pixel size for greater sensitivity but give up a little in the resolution department. An 8 MP camera would have been fine with me. But then I am a "street photographer" and value my ISO and lens speed more than some. In any case, the camera is fine and there is no use crying over spelt milk. Plus, a camera that doesn't have at least 10 MP is a marketing kiss of death.

 

Going forword, I hope that Leica holds onto the 1.33 format so they can concentrate on improving sensitivety and dynamic range. Leave the 16MP+ resolution cameras for the big boys, the DSLRs. I think that Leica could carve out a real niche in the compact rangefinder form factor, if the only ground it gave to the much larger DSLR body and lens combination was with regards to Megapixels. On the other hand, going to full frame like the 5D boasts Pixel size also.

 

But meanwhile, I want my M8. When the M9 comes down the road, I imagine that many of use will have both, just like I have my 20D and am lusting after a 5D. Or I am lusting after a M8 but am keeping my RD1.

 

You can see there is a real sickness here.

 

Rex

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