earleygallery Posted February 28, 2009 Share #21 Â Posted February 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, it sounds like you are a complete newcomer to photography? Â Much as I love film and prefer it to digital if you are learning the ropes then digital is the way to go IMO, simply because you can make all the mistakes for free! There is a counter argument of course that if each frame of film you expose is going to cost X then you will be more careful to start with! Â My first camera was a polaroid, I didn't realise at the time but I was learning quickly about composition and lighting because I could see the results immediately - and correct any mistakes (apertures and shutter speeds came later). Â People rate the Dlux4 and a s/h Digilux 2 is a good buy (get one that has already had the sensor replaced). Â Once you have a good handle on how to expose and compose an image, then you can add a Leica M or R and get into the serious stuff of B&W processing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here Leica for amateur. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
arkinarch Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share #22  Posted February 28, 2009 Hello all  Thank you guys so much for the opinions and advice.. It really does seem that as an amateur, a M6 is good enough, yeah? And to answer Charlie's question, my budget is around USD1500- 2000, with USD2000 the max as of now. Because splurging on a good camera requires a good deal of money, that is why I really need opinions and advice, because I do not want to spend it carelessly. And all of you guys are really of good help! Thank you very much!  I am actually very excited to get started... but I am currently trying to look for a good dealer here in Malaysia. Speaking about that, is the price of a M6 about USD 600 - 700? And do I have to becareful for piracy? (Do they even have piracy when it comes to cameras???) How long are the gurantees approximately?  I'm totally overwhelmed with information right now, but I'm jotting it all down as good advice..and I really appreciate it! Thanks a lot, really! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted February 28, 2009 Share #23  Posted February 28, 2009 Hi, it sounds like you are a complete newcomer to photography? Much as I love film and prefer it to digital if you are learning the ropes then digital is the way to go IMO, simply because you can make all the mistakes for free! There is a counter argument of course that if each frame of film you expose is going to cost X then you will be more careful to start with!  My first camera was a polaroid, I didn't realise at the time but I was learning quickly about composition and lighting because I could see the results immediately - and correct any mistakes (apertures and shutter speeds came later).  People rate the Dlux4 and a s/h Digilux 2 is a good buy (get one that has already had the sensor replaced).  Once you have a good handle on how to expose and compose an image, then you can add a Leica M or R and get into the serious stuff of B&W processing!  James- I disagree- if one is leaning the ropes then it would be far better to learn with film medium than digital so as you learn from your mistakes and are able to understand the complexities of the process. Digital photography belongs in the now society, a society that does not wish to learn by trail and error but wants instant results and gratification. I am so so grateful that I learnt, and continue to learn about this wonderful craft through trial and error and long may I make errors so as I can learn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 28, 2009 Share #24 Â Posted February 28, 2009 Kenneth, I think you've turned the status of digital on its head. With digital you get feedback immediately after taking the shot. With film you have to wait. From the point of view of 'trial and error' digital is the way to go IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 28, 2009 Share #25  Posted February 28, 2009 If you have to wait until you have your film developed, sometimes it's difficult to remember what mistakes you have made  Despite being a film only shooter at the moment, I agree with Steve, in that instant feedback means that mistakes can be seen, and learned from, straight away. Must be a real boon in a classroom situation  Developing and printing film gives it's own unique rewards for those who want that added interest. Horse for courses, as with much in life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted February 28, 2009 Share #26 Â Posted February 28, 2009 Like Andy, I really like film but would have to agree that if you are starting off then digital may be a better choice. Maybe! It's tricky. Here are some more points to consider: Â Economics: If you get a film camera, such as the M6, it will hold its value. A digital model will lose its value after a few years. Then you will probably want to get a new one. But you would have saved the price in film costs. A secondhand M6 will cost over $1,000. It should be possible to get an M6 and lens for $2,000. A new D-Lux 4 compact is about $700. Â Final use: What do you want to do with your photos? With digital you can download to your computer, view onscreen, print yourself or have prints made, email, or view on the TV or big screen with a digital projector. With film, you can get postcard prints (very mixed quality and you won't appreciate the capabilities of the camera); get enlargements made of special pictures; get the film scanned to CD so you have the advantages of both film and digital; develop your own (black and white is arty and some people enjoy it); or shoot slides which have brilliant color. Â Ease of use: With a film camera you have to learn about the basics of loading, exposure, and focusing. With digital, you have to learn about menus and settings. Â Classic or modern: Would you prefer a classic, all-manual camera that is different than what most people are using these days, or a modern, compact digital camera? Â Leica: because this brand has such a strong following, you ill always get lots of help from this forum and other groups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted March 1, 2009 Share #27  Posted March 1, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Like Andy, I really like film but would have to agree that if you are starting off then digital may be a better choice.  Good heavens people, get a grip  You make it sound like film is evil  Until a decade ago, film photography is how anyone learned the craft at all!  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted March 1, 2009 Share #28 Â Posted March 1, 2009 Film evil? Never! In fact it may be quite saintly -- but how many virtuous film users do you find these days? By contrast, I read a description of a digital camera with its "evil menu upon menu" proliferation of features. Film v digital, good v evil, I'd never thought of it that way -- perhaps we could get a religious judgment? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted March 1, 2009 Share #29 Â Posted March 1, 2009 Hi Arkin, a used Leica M6 in a good condition costs round about 1000-1100$ and like the others said i would buy a summicron 50mm lens. it is perfect for nearly every situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted March 1, 2009 Share #30 Â Posted March 1, 2009 Kenneth, I think you've turned the status of digital on its head. With digital you get feedback immediately after taking the shot. With film you have to wait. From the point of view of 'trial and error' digital is the way to go IMHO. Â That is exactly what I mean. The now society who wants results now. I remember, when I used to shoot Kodachrome II exclusively. The anticipation of the package arriving from Hemel Hempstead was wonderful. Also with film trial and error is better because you have to own your errors you cannot just delete them which makes you think about making pictures more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted March 1, 2009 Share #31  Posted March 1, 2009 If you have to wait until you have your film developed, sometimes it's difficult to remember what mistakes you have made Despite being a film only shooter at the moment, I agree with Steve, in that instant feedback means that mistakes can be seen, and learned from, straight away. Must be a real boon in a classroom situation  Developing and printing film gives it's own unique rewards for those who want that added interest. Horse for courses, as with much in life  Regarding classroom situations. I am reliably informed that departments that threw out their D&P equipment with the advent of the new digital technologies are having to re instate them as it has been seen that it is not possible to teach the fundamentals of photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted March 1, 2009 Share #32 Â Posted March 1, 2009 Hi Arkin,a used Leica M6 in a good condition costs round about 1000-1100$ and like the others said i would buy a summicron 50mm lens. it is perfect for nearly every situation. Â Too right and this also addresses the OP's question. once again this forum seems to breed a prattling on around the topic attitude, which I admit to been drawn into Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkinarch Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share #33 Â Posted March 1, 2009 I'm glad that this thread has given all of you the opportunity to exchange opinions Thank you all for all the opinions! Now I shall ask more questions/give feedback about the M6 when I get it! Â But *sigh*, i still don't know if I should get a chrome or a black body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 1, 2009 Share #34 Â Posted March 1, 2009 Which body would you prefer? Â I have a chrome M2 and a chrome M7. My next M will be a black one. Just because. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted March 1, 2009 Share #35  Posted March 1, 2009 I'm glad that this thread has given all of you the opportunity to exchange opinions Thank you all for all the opinions! Now I shall ask more questions/give feedback about the M6 when I get it!  But *sigh*, i still don't know if I should get a chrome or a black body  I was always biased towards chrome cameras believing that they looked more discreet and pro like but recently I have added a second body in black, which because of the price and provenance helped my decision making process. I would recommend you be open minded and just go for the best camera you can afford. And don't forget that having done that you will need to decide whether you go black or chrome with lenses. I have a black and chrome body but mainly chrome lenses which I think looks fine Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77987-leica-for-amateur/?do=findComment&comment=825117'>More sharing options...
abrewer Posted March 1, 2009 Share #36  Posted March 1, 2009 Which body would you prefer? I have a chrome M2 and a chrome M7. My next M will be a black one. Just because.  It'll be a black paint MP, everybody  Just wait and see....  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 1, 2009 Share #37  Posted March 1, 2009 You spend your whole life slowly climbing the ladder  Eventually, you reach the top   Let's see... Maybe not THIS year though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted March 1, 2009 Share #38  Posted March 1, 2009 You spend your whole life slowly climbing the ladder Eventually, you reach the top   Let's see... Maybe not THIS year though  LOL!  Well said, Lord Barton  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 1, 2009 Share #39 Â Posted March 1, 2009 50 'lux to go with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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