Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 4, 2009 Share #61 Posted March 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Most M8 and DMR users had a bag full of lenses already. The S2 will be, what €15,000? $15,000? Just for the body, plus god knows how much for the lenses That's serious cash for a hobbyist where I come from. Especially since your banks have dragged us all into the brown stuff. The M8 and DMR were small beer compared to this investment. I agree Andy this is serious cash and making a mistake is a deadly one for anyone. But honestly I do workshops as you know and that clientele as Michael Reichman will tell ya also they seem to buy whatever they want and not think to much about it. Not only that they are very good at it and they just love it. But reality is this is a cheap hobby compared to like boat owners and a few other hobbies out there. I'm just in the wrong damn business, should have been a ________ would be better . LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here S2 Demo at PMA. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
robsteve Posted March 4, 2009 Share #62 Posted March 4, 2009 Guy: When you get the S2 Demo, remind Leica that C1 needs to enable the LCC function for the shift lenses. When Leica came out with the DMR, the equivalent function was in Flexcolor, but only worked with Imakon backs, not the DMR. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted March 4, 2009 Share #63 Posted March 4, 2009 ... hobbyists will look to Pro's buying decisions and no matter what anyone says the power of Pro's buying gear sells gear to the hobbyist in a big way. Hi Guy, I'm seriously starting to doubt this. From what I've read on these threads from your site linked below, the pro's - people trying to make a living from taking photos - are more preoccupied with economics than with Image Quality. Though I can understand this is the reality of todays market, I'm sorry to see pro's writing things like "my customers don't see the difference, so why should I bother". I understand that money and having to deliver etc. is very important in todays professional world, but amateurs - people who do something for the love of it - or hobbyist as you call them, might have other priorities than money. Looking at what professionals buy would be shortsited in this respect. Kind regards, Peter So, where is the Leica S2? - The GetDPI Workshop Forums The S2 PMA with David Farkas - The GetDPI Workshop Forums Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 5, 2009 Share #64 Posted March 5, 2009 Darn i had a nice reply and lost it . Busy servers. Anyway in brief the tide is changing on that somewhat given the economics. people would buy what the Pro's buy and still do they just seem to be buying bigger backs than we do anymore. Hey like I said they are doing it for fun and pleasure and it is there hobby so the money they put into it is not as important as it is today for the working Pro. We have been getting hit really hard lately and a lot of folks are moving back to a high end DSLR to save money. Many are doing magazine work and obviously 35mm, D3X and others can handle that well. Need versus want and need is becoming more important in these times for a lot of shooters and just getting by. I still need the MF because my clients have the big file need for large prints and such. But there is a shift in the wind and a really bad time for Leica to enter the market. Even the hobbyist will start to back down at some point. But your point is well taken we are very worried when the next job is coming and one of my big clients all but dried up like a prune. There still alive and well just putting major constraints on spending right now and that is starting to hurt a lot of folks. This is all starting to happen in a very short time frame as well , even in less than a couple weeks. Anyway we are OT here and hopefully we can all get some nice reports on the S2 tomorrow . Last count there are about 15 folks from my place and here for the demo and i know Leica is very happy to see us all. Good night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 5, 2009 Share #65 Posted March 5, 2009 ... We have been getting hit really hard lately and a lot of folks are moving back to a high end DSLR to save money. Many are doing magazine work and obviously 35mm, D3X and others can handle that well. Need versus want and need is becoming more important in these times for a lot of shooters and just getting by. I still need the MF because my clients have the big file need for large prints and such. But there is a shift in the wind and a really bad time for Leica to enter the market. Even the hobbyist will start to back down at some point. [/Quote] I agree with what you said. It is a very tough time for many photographers (and of course lots of other businesses.) Several of my clients have gone out of business in the past year. (One owing me a significant amount of money.) Those who are left are not doing much photography or are beating me up on price. Many other shooters I know are in the same boat. Fortunately I have low overhead, money in the bank, and other things to do with my time. But buying an S2 or other MF system is not in the plans. (I posted some of this reply elsewhere but it is appropriate here.) Clearly medium format cameras have gone out of favor. Part of this has to do with the improvements of resolution in the 35mm digital gear. Additionally, the MF digital gear is very weak in wide angle and generally not as versatile as 35mm. Even when I had the 40 for the Rollei 6006, I used a 6x9 wide angle camera more. It is just now getting possible to shoot wide angle interiors on an MF system - 23mm wide angle on the larger backs. Yet this still doesn't quite equal what I used to do on a view camera or what I currently can do on FF 35mm. The new 17mm Canon TS-E lens will be very special. When I did shoot 6x6, it was often for the Polaroid proofing capability, especially with models and with flash. Not necessarily for the improved resolution. Another factor is the clients. They don't demand MF as they once did, or 4x5 either. Once we started scanning large format film, it turned out that they often only wanted files that were 40 megs or smaller. At that point I switched to shooting MF roll film on my 4x5. Now, a lot of my clients have gotten cheap and don't even appreciate nor demand the quality that I am currently capable of producing. They'd rather have it low cost, down and dirty, than perfectly done and more costly. So there is no push for me to go to MF digital. The Leica S2 looks very intriguing. It has a a wide range of lenses announced for it, plus with the FP shutter, it should be adaptable to more. And it makes sense to produce a larger format system in order for Leica to compete with Canon and Nikon. But unfortunately, the price will probably be in line with Hasselblad, so that might be a big problem. I wish Leica good luck on the S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 5, 2009 Share #66 Posted March 5, 2009 And frankly i don't need you comments on how I run my business or my money or my life Assuming you're referring to Pete, he didn't make comments on any of those. He merely stated facts. You've changed systems quite a few times over a short period of time and raved about each of them. Something I'm sure even you'd agree with. Nothing wrong with that - it's your money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted March 5, 2009 Share #67 Posted March 5, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Any chance of avoiding a descent into the personal for once and of keeping this thread on topic? That is, the S2 and the PMA demonstration being given to David, Guy and other forum members this morning. This could be a useful source of information for all of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 5, 2009 Share #68 Posted March 5, 2009 Do we have a list of suggested questions? thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 5, 2009 Share #69 Posted March 5, 2009 If it's not too late, here's one more question. With a Hasselblad, Mamiya etc you can upgrade your sensor every few years with a new back and keep the main body. What is Leica's plan? Do we need to buy a new body every 3 years to get a new sensor? Will Leica offer sensor upgrade? Sure would have been nice if they had designed the same body, but with a sensor module... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 5, 2009 Share #70 Posted March 5, 2009 Assuming you're referring to Pete, he didn't make comments on any of those. He merely stated facts. You've changed systems quite a few times over a short period of time and raved about each of them. Something I'm sure even you'd agree with. Nothing wrong with that - it's your money. DMR for 2 years and the M8 for almost 2 years hardly switching out systems on a weekly basis. My issue is I should have kept the DMR until I went MF. The M8 got me but I loved it. I still miss the DMR. But I tried to keep up with the technology. Digital is different. I had a Hassy V for 20 years. But the real answer is the DMR and the M8 are the better than sliced bread that never changed , I just don't own them now. Takes nothing away from them. Little bit of a gear slut too I freely admit. LOL I will check on the upgrade path for the S2 but I think it will be a new body needed. Till tonight. Thanks Steve your right 15 people to give some feedback, like holding it in your hand itself. Nice opportunity for others to gather data. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 5, 2009 Share #71 Posted March 5, 2009 Looks like we'll get that AF-lock button after all... David Farkas Photography Blog "Let's talk a bit about Auto Focus on the S2. The big news first. Several people have asked me about programming the top right button to be AF-on. Well, Leica has provided an even better option. There will be a separate AF-on/lock button for your right thumb to enjoy. This is a new button that is not on the current prototype but will absolutely be on the final product. Good news, huh? " I hope you can assign one of the large menu buttons to do AE-LOCK. If not, Leica should add a second button. This could be customizeable, so you could assign AE-LOCK to it. Having these two buttons under your right thumb is pretty much an industry standard. Other than that David Farkas has some very interesting information in his post. The S2 looks like it's going to be a very, very nice camera. If you can afford it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted March 5, 2009 Share #72 Posted March 5, 2009 One important question to you all in Las Vegas: Does holding it in your hands make you want to go shoot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted March 5, 2009 Share #73 Posted March 5, 2009 David Farkas' first blog entry from PMA is online: David Farkas Photography Blog One of the changes Leica has made is to add a right-thumb autofocus button! Yay! Thanks Carsten. Excellent report, David. Cheers, Sean Reid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted March 5, 2009 Share #74 Posted March 5, 2009 I would like someone to ask a question: Will the S2 be a camera to be used in remote locations away from power grids and people that I charge with a Solar Charger? IE, a truly rugged field camera? There are those of us that would use it those conditions. Thanks, and have good time !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 5, 2009 Share #75 Posted March 5, 2009 I would like someone to ask a question: Will the S2 be a camera to be used in remote locations away from power grids and people that I charge with a Solar Charger? IE, a truly rugged field camera? There are those of us that would use it those conditions. Thanks, and have good time !!! That's dependent on your solar charging system, not the S2. If it can produce enough juice to charge the S2 battery you're in business... But the good news is that apparently the S2 is heavily sealed against dust and moisture. Not waterproof (it's no Nikonos), but hopefully as good as a pro Nikon body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share #76 Posted March 5, 2009 I just posted answers to questions that were passed along to me. Check out my blog for details. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted March 5, 2009 Share #77 Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks David, I've already taken a quick look. Did they say anything about the new chairman of the supervisory board by the way, just announced as Rudolf Spiller? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/79708-rudolf-spiller-new-chairman-board.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdemas Posted March 5, 2009 Share #78 Posted March 5, 2009 I look forward to hearing more from the demo. I was supposed to be there today but unfortunately life (and business) stepped in and i could not go as planned. With the news of the current R discontinuation the S development is really the beginning of a new SLR experience for Leica fans, technology which will make it's way down through various price levels (theoretically). Enjoy the demo guys, anxious to hear more! Kent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 5, 2009 Share #79 Posted March 5, 2009 I just posted answers to questions that were passed along to me David many thanks for asking the questions. The camera looks very interesting, I just wish I could afford one - and I don't even have a granny left to sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted March 5, 2009 Share #80 Posted March 5, 2009 Many thanks David! I've been closely following your blog and the info you put up there is very interesting and much appreciated. ...don't even have a granny left to sell. Steve, you wouldn't really do that now, or would you? ;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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