sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #61 Posted October 22, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean just finished reading the whole deal. Very well written first off and also as most of us expected of the results. Great job and the images look great also . i can see very well how it will compare to the DMR in color and saturation, to me looking at the fruit and veggies. i can see the leica red , yellows are very accurate to what we see in the DMR. Frankly i am very excited to get one. The interesting part is wht we were talking about in another thread with regards to coding and actually applying the vignetting to the raw, that was what Iroginal heard an seems to be the case . the beauty as always in the ability to turn it off. LOL Great job my friend and looking forward to more reviews, now sit back drink a cognac and relax:D Hi Guy, Thanks very much. I could use a drink. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jonoslack Posted October 22, 2006 Share #62 Posted October 22, 2006 HI Sean I've just finished reading part 2 - it's such a relief to read a review with real pictures and situations, and one which is also well written. I'm one of your new rangefinder users - I've already been playing with a secondhand M6TTL and some lenses for a few weeks and have fallen seriously in love (despite not having shot film these 5 years and more). Being able to view what's going on around the chosen area is such a gas! The M8 sounds like the small and loveable digital camera with no technical compromises that I've been dreaming of for many years (and which Olympus keep not quite making!). I'm in danger of rambling - thank you for your excellent review, I already feel that my £14.00 was excellent value for money. Kind Regards Jono Slack jonathan slack - photographs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maio Posted October 22, 2006 Share #63 Posted October 22, 2006 Not a PayPal comment I'm afraid but the review is now live. <G> I've been working at it constantly since the camera batt was first charged. This is part 2 and covers a lot of IQ aspects. Cheers, Sean Good work, Sean! I've only read it through one time, but the images support your conclusons. I also have to say that your perspective on the cost issues involved in owning an M8 are very mature and reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkey Posted October 22, 2006 Share #64 Posted October 22, 2006 Thanks, Sean. An excellent "read" to say the least. Very informative. I look forward to the next installment. . . . David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted October 22, 2006 Share #65 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean, Good review. I also just finished reading it. Now I'm even more anxious to get mine in hand. I'm very encouraged by your results on the ISO sensitivity and the files you posted. Guy, Is this where I say that I told you so, about the RAW file and 6-bit coding? As we talked, a little birdie had described this to me a while ago. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 22, 2006 Share #66 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean -- the pumpkin festival came across like shooting animals in the zoo -- endless variety, and these animals were having a great time. I particularly like the bearded chin, smiling lady, pointing arm picture for its internal dance. And did you include the one of the couple embracing in a gap in the crowd so that we could see the self-portrait of your shadow with hat? The opening shot of the band was as bright as the band must have sounded. One thing could be added to the vegetable studies. Which 35mm were you using -- your CV35/2.5 or a Leica lens? I would expect that the natural colors of the two might differ. You didn't quite say this, but the long standing suspicion is that noise reduction in the Canon line of cameras at high ISO is done before the RAW file is written out, and accounts for the slight loss of detail. Any information yet about how the 8 bits from each pixel in the M8's RAW files are arrived at from the 14 or so bits of raw data? cheers, scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaleica Posted October 22, 2006 Share #67 Posted October 22, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean, Thanks for another valuable contribution, and as timely as can be. Even your pixel-peeping is inspiring, because it is contextualized and with an applied purpose. Looking forward to all your future thoughts as well. Jerry Clausing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanized_form Posted October 22, 2006 Share #68 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean, have you made any prints from the M8 yet at the various ISO settings? does the Texas Leica quality transfer to the prints? Sean or anyone else with experience that can answer: what would be the max print size you would feel comfortable pushing something like the M8/5D too for making high quality color prints? thanks, kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #69 Posted October 22, 2006 HI SeanI've just finished reading part 2 - it's such a relief to read a review with real pictures and situations, and one which is also well written. I'm one of your new rangefinder users - I've already been playing with a secondhand M6TTL and some lenses for a few weeks and have fallen seriously in love (despite not having shot film these 5 years and more). Being able to view what's going on around the chosen area is such a gas! The M8 sounds like the small and loveable digital camera with no technical compromises that I've been dreaming of for many years (and which Olympus keep not quite making!). I'm in danger of rambling - thank you for your excellent review, I already feel that my £14.00 was excellent value for money. Kind Regards Jono Slack jonathan slack - photographs Hi Jono, Thanks very much. Getting an M6 to play with was a great idea, glad that you love it. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted October 22, 2006 Share #70 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean, Thanks. Excellent review. I also valued the introduction, where you talk about the "feel" of working with it. What are your feelings about the use of a dedicated noise program (like Noise Ninja) as opposed to the C1 noise controls? Do you think there'd be any high-ISO benefits? JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #71 Posted October 22, 2006 Good work, Sean! I've only read it through one time, but the images support your conclusons. I also have to say that your perspective on the cost issues involved in owning an M8 are very mature and reasonable. Thank you very much. The cost issues are important to look and it's important to know that one doesn't need to have $15 K free to begin working with the M8. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #72 Posted October 22, 2006 David, Ray, Jerry, Thank you very much. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #73 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean -- the pumpkin festival came across like shooting animals in the zoo -- endless variety, and these animals were having a great time. I particularly like the bearded chin, smiling lady, pointing arm picture for its internal dance. And did you include the one of the couple embracing in a gap in the crowd so that we could see the self-portrait of your shadow with hat? The opening shot of the band was as bright as the band must have sounded. One thing could be added to the vegetable studies. Which 35mm were you using -- your CV35/2.5 or a Leica lens? I would expect that the natural colors of the two might differ. You didn't quite say this, but the long standing suspicion is that noise reduction in the Canon line of cameras at high ISO is done before the RAW file is written out, and accounts for the slight loss of detail. Any information yet about how the 8 bits from each pixel in the M8's RAW files are arrived at from the 14 or so bits of raw data? cheers, scott Hi Scott, Thanks for the perceptive comments on both the review and the pictures. All my other M8 pictures were made on pre-prod cameras so I had to shoot everything for this set in less than 24 hours. I didn't quite say that about the 5D but I have the same suspicion. No new bits on the bits yet. It will be addressed in a future article. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #74 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean, have you made any prints from the M8 yet at the various ISO settings? does the Texas Leica quality transfer to the prints? Sean or anyone else with experience that can answer: what would be the max print size you would feel comfortable pushing something like the M8/5D too for making high quality color prints? thanks, kevin Hi Kevin, Yes I have and yes it does. Max print size would vary tremendously according to what the photographer wants. I myself would go to 20 x 30 with the low ISO files. Cheers, S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 22, 2006 Share #75 Posted October 22, 2006 Thank you Sean for a useful review and I'm pleased you are enjoying the M8. I do wonder though whether your review focussed needlessly on the question of noise compared to the 5D at high ISO. The major determinant of pixel noise is areal density which is down to sensor size and pixel count and even though the Canon sensor has more pixels, it has much greater area so that you would expect at least half a stop improvement compared to the Leica. I don't think any of us seriously expected the M8 noise performance to be better than the 5D. More telling is the fact that the Leica has less noise than an R-D1 in spite of its own higher areal density which is a reflection of sensor design progress since the ageing Sony sensor used in the R-D1 was introduced. On that basis, the Leica has made real progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanized_form Posted October 22, 2006 Share #76 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean... thanks for the info on prints. i'm on a M8 waiting list and am finding that print size is becoming a major consideration for whether i follow through and purchase. i'm on the fence right now. i know i probably won't see a better digital rangefinder for years(if ever) and think the M8 presents the least amount of compromises(or maybe the most acceptable ones) in any digital camera yet released. i'm really not bothered by the high iso differences with the 5D. i think the ease of focusing a rangefinder in low light and the fast lenses might even negate the need to go higher than 640, where as those higher ISO's may be a necessity when using a dslr design and lenses. i'm looking forward to the lens reviews. maybe you can get one of the new Zeiss 50mm Sonnars for testing as well. kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 22, 2006 Share #77 Posted October 22, 2006 I sold a 30" x 20" print from a 6 mp Canon 300D, so I doubt that the M8 will present any problems in that area. A comparison between the 5D and M8 is interesting, but at the end of the day one is a rangefinder and the other isn't. For some of us who prefer rangefinders the 5D has provided a stop gap, albeit an excellent one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #78 Posted October 22, 2006 Thank you Sean for a useful review and I'm pleased you are enjoying the M8. I do wonder though whether your review focussed needlessly on the question of noise compared to the 5D at high ISO. The major determinant of pixel noise is areal density which is down to sensor size and pixel count and even though the Canon sensor has more pixels, it has much greater area so that you would expect at least half a stop improvement compared to the Leica. I don't think any of us seriously expected the M8 noise performance to be better than the 5D. More telling is the fact that the Leica has less noise than an R-D1 in spite of its own higher areal density which is a reflection of sensor design progress since the ageing Sony sensor used in the R-D1 was introduced. On that basis, the Leica has made real progress. Hi Mark, Progress indeed, much better than the DMR. The 5D is the current reference standard for noise and so I compare many cameras to it. The mathematical difference is interesting but the working photographer mostly just needs to know what the camera can do. I think the M8 does quite well through ISO 1250. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #79 Posted October 22, 2006 Sean... thanks for the info on prints. i'm on a M8 waiting list and am finding that print size is becoming a major consideration for whether i follow through and purchase. i'm on the fence right now. i know i probably won't see a better digital rangefinder for years(if ever) and think the M8 presents the least amount of compromises(or maybe the most acceptable ones) in any digital camera yet released. i'm really not bothered by the high iso differences with the 5D. i think the ease of focusing a rangefinder in low light and the fast lenses might even negate the need to go higher than 640, where as those higher ISO's may be a necessity when using a dslr design and lenses. i'm looking forward to the lens reviews. maybe you can get one of the new Zeiss 50mm Sonnars for testing as well. kevin Th Sonnar is coming, I believe. How big are you planning to print? Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share #80 Posted October 22, 2006 I sold a 30" x 20" print from a 6 mp Canon 300D, so I doubt that the M8 will present any problems in that area. A comparison between the 5D and M8 is interesting, but at the end of the day one is a rangefinder and the other isn't. For some of us who prefer rangefinders the 5D has provided a stop gap, albeit an excellent one. Comparisons with the R-D1 are coming up next and I sketched those results in this article. Basically, the M8 performs as well as the R-D1 at high ISO. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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