M3 or MP

[badpets]

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thank you. i like it when you said that M3 is a camera all Leica Fans should try ! i know what you meant. M3 is a legend and if i really buy it, it'll be a tribute to its legacy. and look at your collection, wow. are you gonna include a M8 though soon?

 

What do I like about the M3?

 

Lets see...

 

1. The M3 like a few other M's, M2 and M4 I believe, do not have a built in meter, so the shutter release goes straight to activation thus it is really easy to tune them for an ultra smooth release.

 

2. The M3 pairs up brilliantly with a 50, my longest Leica lens. It has just enough room around the bright lines to be spatial and yet it is not overly roomy like a .72. I don't mind shooting a 50 with a .72, I just like it much better with the M3's .92 mag. Focusing a fast 50 like a summilux or a noctilux on the M3 is as good as it gets, AF has nothing on it.

 

3. There were well over 200,000 of them made over the span of a long time, so there are plenty of them around in all kinds of conditions, lots of spare parts in effect. There are also a number of technicians who do great work on them.

 

4. I like having the self timer for when I don't have a cable release handy, it gets your hand off the shutter for long exposures.

 

5. It is legendary for a reason, To quote Anthony Lane of the New Yorker:

 

"Martine Franck is still cool: “I think I know my light by now,” she told me. She continues to use her M3: “I’ve never held a camera so beautiful. It fits the hand so well.” Even for people who know nothing of Cartier-Bresson, and for whom 1954 is as long ago as Pompeii, something about the M3 clicks into place: last year, when eBay and Stuff magazine, in the U.K., took it upon themselves to nominate “the top gadget of all time,” the Game Boy came fifth, the Sony Walkman third, and the iPod second. First place went to an old camera that doesn’t even need a battery. If the Queen subscribes to Stuff, she will have nodded in approval, having owned an M3 since 1958. Her Majesty is so wedded to her Leica that she was once shown on a postage stamp holding it at the ready."

 

6. When I am photographing people in a non-stealth manner, a chrome M3 puts them at ease I find. It is stunningly beautiful in it's retro look, it looks gentle, honest, worldly. It creates dialogue that is non-confrontational. When I held it up to photograph Jack Nicholson last week while he was out and about, he marveled at it which is less than I can say for the paparazzi he had left around the corner.

 

Sure, the M3 may have been around for over 50 years, but it is a camera that if cared for and prepared for use correctly, will easily be around for another 50 more. I think it is a camera that every Leica fan should try.

 

My two are in this team photo, the chrome on the bottom, the black on the top center. I paid $575 for my chrome one on ebay late one night. The seller was not a photo guy, but a estate liquidator. He said the camera worked well it would seem, but was dirty. I got it and cleaned it up, had a CLA done, put new leatherette on and it is near mint.

[badpets]

ok that'll be cool too.

 

Thanks. The M3 would be bad ass with your Nocti since it has the .91 finder, but not at 2700$. That is way to much more than you should use on one unless its black. Of course if you have the money laying around and you want it, buy it. Its your money and you can do whatever you want with them If I were you though I would wait for a M3 thats half the price and rather use the rest of the money on a M2 or M4 so you have more framelines for your other lenses.

[KM-25]

are you gonna include a M8 though soon?

 

I had one for over a year. I liked it, but did not love the IR filters, I had to keep taking them on and off for when I shoot Kodachrome, which is the main reason I even use Leica. The M8 batteries were also not so good in the cold.

 

For digital I have a full Nikon set up. Maybe when the M9 is near full frame and does not need IR cut off filters, I will take a look, until then, I am very much set with what I have.

[JBA]

note that 50mm would look like 35mm on M8. so that's wide enough for me.

 

You've got this backwards. The M8 magnifies, so a 35 will look like a 50. A 50 will be closer to 75.

[Guest maddoc2003jp]

.... you mentioned "Noctilux". As others have mentioned, the M3 is the best choice for accurate focusing of the Noctilux (I have a Noctilux and had a M3 - several of them - ) If you don't wear glasses, want to use 35mm lenses, and prefer a metered body with the look of an M3 then the MP 0.85x is the best choice for you. Focusing the Noctilux (or any other fast 50mm lens) is nearly as easy as with the M3 (the difference between 0.92x and 0.85x is very small) and you will have a newer camera. I had the M6TTL 0.85x to go with my Noctilux for some time and the combo worked great (except for the flare of the VF....)

 

One more remark about the M3 ... The prism in the VF of the M3 are glued with a balsam that deteriorates with age and isn't that stable anymore after 50 years. One hard bump can lead to prism separation which is a very expensive repair (and can't be done by Leica).

 

I am also living in Japan (Sapporo) since a couple of years and found the prices of used Leica gear here very high. Except two cameras, I have bought everything used from abroad, import tax is only ~ 5% or so in Japan and still cheaper than buying locally.

[badpets]

yes, indeed! thanks for correcting.

 

You've got this backwards. The M8 magnifies, so a 35 will look like a 50. A 50 will be closer to 75.

[badpets]

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Sapporo is cold isn't it up there? But I bet it's looking beautiful.

 

Thanks for your note regarding Noctilux focusing. Talking about MP .85, I was looking at a MP .72 yesterday in a shop. I think MP has three versions that are .58, .72 and .85. I'm not an expert on that, all I was told was that .72 accepts more lenses than .85 does. Anyone can elaborate on that?

 

your remark on the prism sounds very possible. yesterday while i was testing a M3 in the shop, the skin started to fall off from the corner; that freaked me out and quickly left alone the camera. i have to agree that even the most powerful glue will decay after half century.

 

i also found an used MP .72 that sells about YEN 288000 with with an authorized warranty issued by ginza leica that expires in 2013.. the problem is it's under someone's name... and the brand new MP .72 is YEN 345000. the thing i dont like MP is the look of it. it's like a M8 gone plain; the sandskin looks horrible....

 

after receiving some many opinions regarding the M3 prices i reported here, i think M3 is price ridiculously too high in japan. Under YEN 200,000 there's no way I can get mint condition. M2 is actually even more expensive.

 

.... you mentioned "Noctilux". As others have mentioned, the M3 is the best choice for accurate focusing of the Noctilux (I have a Noctilux and had a M3 - several of them - ) If you don't wear glasses, want to use 35mm lenses, and prefer a metered body with the look of an M3 then the MP 0.85x is the best choice for you. Focusing the Noctilux (or any other fast 50mm lens) is nearly as easy as with the M3 (the difference between 0.92x and 0.85x is very small) and you will have a newer camera. I had the M6TTL 0.85x to go with my Noctilux for some time and the combo worked great (except for the flare of the VF....)

 

One more remark about the M3 ... The prism in the VF of the M3 are glued with a balsam that deteriorates with age and isn't that stable anymore after 50 years. One hard bump can lead to prism separation which is a very expensive repair (and can't be done by Leica).

 

I am also living in Japan (Sapporo) since a couple of years and found the prices of used Leica gear here very high. Except two cameras, I have bought everything used from abroad, import tax is only ~ 5% or so in Japan and still cheaper than buying locally.

[badpets]

JBA, your human photos are extra! great flickr.

 

You've got this backwards. The M8 magnifies, so a 35 will look like a 50. A 50 will be closer to 75.

[Guest maddoc2003jp]

Sapporo is beautiful but cold right now ....

 

About used MP cameras ... Two years ago I had bought an used (two year old) silver-chrome MP 0.72x here in Japan from Yahoo auctions and it came complete with everything including an extended 5 years warranty registered with the name of the pre-owner (seller). The MP developed some problems (shutter, electronics, shutter button) and Leica Ginza repaired it under warranty. (I had won the auction at 240.000Yen.)

 

You can easily check yourself the VF magnification by switching the frame-line preview lever: The MP 0.72x (standard) shows 6 frame-lines in 3 pairs, the 0.85x and 0.58x only show 5 frame-lines with either missing the 135mm field (the smallest one in case of the 0.58x) or the 28mm field (the largest one in case of the 0.85x).

 

Cheers from Sapporo !

 

Gabor

[JBA]

JBA, your human photos are extra! great flickr.

 

Thanks! Glad you like them.

 

I assume you've checked Lemon in Ginza. They have a large selection of M3s and M2s. You should be able to get a decent user body for Y120,000 or less, but it won't be mint. Personally, I wouldn't want a mint camera. Those are for collectors.

 

Kanto Camera Service can repair things like balsam separation and put on new vulkanit. I've heard their prices are a bit high, but they're one of the few shops that can offer some of the more difficult repairs.

[badpets]

I'm amazed Lemon in Ginza is so well known among foreigners living in Japan. Yes I checked it out yesterday. As a matter of fact, they do not have any mint condition M3s.

Thanks again for the Kanto Camera site. I'm browsing it right now and seems like they have good price for M3...

 

 

Thanks! Glad you like them.

 

I assume you've checked Lemon in Ginza. They have a large selection of M3s and M2s. You should be able to get a decent user body for Y120,000 or less, but it won't be mint. Personally, I wouldn't want a mint camera. Those are for collectors.

 

Kanto Camera Service can repair things like balsam separation and put on new vulkanit. I've heard their prices are a bit high, but they're one of the few shops that can offer some of the more difficult repairs.

[badpets]

Hi Gabor, thank you.

 

It would be rather embarrassing for me to bring second hand MP under someone else's name to Leica Ginza for repair because they have always been so nice to me and I have not been buying from them since I discovered Lemon Ginza. I just try to save some bucks for travelling.

 

How do you came to trust online purchase with such big amount knowing there's always risk?

 

Cheers from Tokyo too.

 

Sapporo is beautiful but cold right now ....

 

About used MP cameras ... Two years ago I had bought an used (two year old) silver-chrome MP 0.72x here in Japan from Yahoo auctions and it came complete with everything including an extended 5 years warranty registered with the name of the pre-owner (seller). The MP developed some problems (shutter, electronics, shutter button) and Leica Ginza repaired it under warranty. (I had won the auction at 240.000Yen.)

 

You can easily check yourself the VF magnification by switching the frame-line preview lever: The MP 0.72x (standard) shows 6 frame-lines in 3 pairs, the 0.85x and 0.58x only show 5 frame-lines with either missing the 135mm field (the smallest one in case of the 0.58x) or the 28mm field (the largest one in case of the 0.85x).

 

Cheers from Sapporo !

 

Gabor

[NZDavid]

Do you want a classic classic (M3), or a modern classic (MP)? You really can't go wrong with either. What is great about the M3 is that it is still going strong after all these years.

The MP should last just as long -- or as long as there is still film. As for lenses, they are all compatible with the M3, even the wides. Just use a separate viewfinder. It is not a lot of fuss. And get used a a handheld meter like the Sekonic 308.

[JBA]

I'm amazed Lemon in Ginza is so well known among foreigners living in Japan. Yes I checked it out yesterday. As a matter of fact, they do not have any mint condition M3s.

Thanks again for the Kanto Camera site. I'm browsing it right now and seems like they have good price for M3...

 

I'm actually known by name at Lemon. I bought my 90 AA Summicron and my MP there. They also repaired my 90 Summicron -R and CLA'd my M6. Their lab develops and scans all my film, which means three to five rolls a week on average.

[badpets]

True. OK. Thanks NZDavid.

 

Do you want a classic classic (M3), or a modern classic (MP)? You really can't go wrong with either. What is great about the M3 is that it is still going strong after all these years.

The MP should last just as long -- or as long as there is still film. As for lenses, they are all compatible with the M3, even the wides. Just use a separate viewfinder. It is not a lot of fuss. And get used a a handheld meter like the Sekonic 308.

[badpets]

Hehe... Leica makes the world small; it's like a totally new characteristic that profiles us. Great. Thanks for all the help again!

 

I'm actually known by name at Lemon. I bought my 90 AA Summicron and my MP there. They also repaired my 90 Summicron -R and CLA'd my M6. Their lab develops and scans all my film, which means three to five rolls a week on average.

[mongrelnomad]

I'm actually known by name at Lemon.

 

And I @ Leica Ginza. In hindsight, I'm guessing that's not such a good thing...

 

You can easily check yourself the VF magnification by switching the frame-line preview lever: The MP 0.72x (standard) shows 6 frame-lines in 3 pairs, the 0.85x and 0.58x only show 5 frame-lines with either missing the 135mm field (the smallest one in case of the 0.58x) or the 28mm field (the largest one in case of the 0.85x).

 

For an .85 finder, I gather you can use the whole finder as a (close) approximation of 28mm.

 

the thing i dont like MP is the look of it. it's like a M8 gone plain; the sandskin looks horrible....

 

I agree - the sharkskin is not the nicest of finishes. But, if you buy a-la-carte (you'll need to for the .85 finder, unless you can find one second hand), you can have it with the gorgeous Vulkanite finish. If you do buy it second-hand, Leica will change it for your, or there's always CameraLeather.com Custom camera leather and leatherette or other cheaper alternatives.

[JBA]

And I @ Leica Ginza. In hindsight, I'm guessing that's not such a good thing...

 

They know me at Leica Ginza too! And you're right.

[badpets]

everyone, i wanna thank you all for helping me. without this thread, i could easily ended up with some ripped offs. i think there are so many M3 bodies that already have been modified, for example, some M3 body has M4 VF, and DS became SS and stuff.

 

after browsing some stores and compared what i had seen, i finally decided to buy an M3 (the oldest model i believe, one with the speed dail without a red arrow). i don't want to say exactly how much i paid b/c i know it will sound silly according to you guys' standard and seeing you guys raising eyebrows will make me feel bad about the purchase. but for the region of tokyo i think it's a good deal. i'm happy. it's under USD 2000 though. the condition is not really super mint, have little minor scratches, but the skin still attaching to the body firmly. overall feels very solid. most importantly, nothing really bother me visually. i even managed to bargain and got about USD 120 discount. it's looking beautiful. hanging over my neck, holding and feeling it, i realized M3 is a totally different breed and you'll never know what i meant unless you own it and then feel it at your hands too. and GOSH, i don't understand why i would compared it with MP in the first place. i'm glad i'm not holding a MP now.

 

i tried mounting both my Elmar-M 50mm and Noctilux 50mm, Elmar looks perfect on it.

just tested shooting my dogs. will develop the film tomorrow and hopefull everything will turn out OK.

 

note: it looks extra beautiful b/c it's shot by M8 + noctilux 50mm

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[JBA]

That's a beauty. Where did you end up buying it?