cmb_ Posted October 17, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guy wrote: "i have not read the full PDF yet but i think we lost our full lcd white line histo that we have on the DMR" Guy it is there. Page 89 of the PDF Manual (Comprehensive instructions/The most important settins/89) explains how to set it. They call it a Tone Value Histogram. It is listed in the spec sheets and Product info also. cb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Hi cmb_, Take a look here M8 instruction discoveries. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 17, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 17, 2006 AWESOME Charlie , I will read it . Folks this is the best setting on the DMR and works great in practice. You can work very quickly and make need adjustemnts on the fly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbegibson Posted October 17, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 17, 2006 snip..... There's also the question of the Tri-Elmar. The existing lens adjusts the frames as you change focal length and the camera senses the position of the frame lever to identify the focal length in use. I've seen the bayonet ring of the new T-E and there's no corresponding complexity and I do not see how, if at all, the camera will be able to distinguish between the 16, 18 and 21mm settings. Just a guess, since the camera apparently relays focal length to a flash, could the ttl flash contacts be used to relay the focal length setting on their new 'big ol' finder'? That way, the finder setting along with the 6-bit code give the lens and focal length? Just a guess.... Robbe Gibson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 17, 2006 Share #44 Posted October 17, 2006 This is from the manual: Formatting the memory card It is normally not necessary to format (initialize) a memory card that has already been used. If however a card that has yet to be formatted is inserted for the first time, it must be formatted. In such cases the Formatsub-menu appears automatically. Nevertheless, it is recommended that the memory card be reformatted occasionally, as a certain amount of residual data (info accompanying pictures) can take up memory capacity. I strongly disagree with this statement. i ALWAYS reformat the card before using. Of all the digital camera's i have used corruption can happen if you don't fomat before use. Scientific proof , no but war stories yes. What happens if you fill a card half way , than download the images on computer than put it back ;. First you don't have a full card than another folder is created on the card and when you go to download you may miss the ones you just shot. Besides the corruption issue that has come up with every brand known to man. I just don't like this procedure at all. You are bound to screw up. Seriously make this procedure of how you work a religion and never deviate from it. My working sample . Put a card in the camera and format immeaditely, than take the shots I want and normally pull it before i finish the card up. Than take that card out of camera turn it upside down in a SD 8 slot card holder ( they make 2 and 4 also Hamma) this way when I look at the case if it is upside down , it means to me . Images on card don't touch until download. Than after my shoot i go home or on laptop in the field. I download the upside down cards on too computer tahn back that all up on a DVD or external device than after each card down loaded I put back in case right side up. Okay why you ask I put them rightside up before going out again. God forbid something completely weird happens with the computers, I still have those images on the card . Than i will repeat the process using a different side of the card holder. But i format every time in camera and never format them off the computer either. Most folks follow this path that been there before . But this question comes up all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnll Posted October 17, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 17, 2006 On page 86 of the manual it says that "Exposure metering is not possible with" ... two 21mm Super-Angulon lenses - also some early Elmarit 28/2.8 lenses. Does anyone know why? Is it because of the depth they penetrate the camera? Is there any way of knowing if this would also apply to the CV 21/4? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 17, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 17, 2006 On page 86 of the manual it says that "Exposure metering is not possible with" ... two 21mm Super-Angulon lenses - also some early Elmarit 28/2.8 lenses. Does anyone know why? Is it because of the depth they penetrate the camera? Is there any way of knowing if this would also apply to the CV 21/4? John-- Your guess is correct: The two earliest 21's and the earliest 28 protruded far into the body. For the M5 they could be modified not to key the meter arm (which they would have damaged). In the case of the M8, apparently the metering sensor will look back for its white shutter blade but see only lens barrel. If the CV 21 protrudes far into the body, the same will likely hold; but I don't know how far is too far. If you have the lens and can tell by looking that it clearly isn't retrofocal, then it probably won't meter accurately. Maybe the easiest way to tell is to put a standard M rear cap on it. If that works, you should be fine. The three lenses you name all had a special long rear cap. In other words, if it looks too long, it probably is. I think the meter sensor is close to the front of the camera--someone who has seen the camera can straighten us out on that. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 17, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is that the current Noctilux in the center picture on manual p 103? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgeoffrion Posted October 17, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 17, 2006 ...Aparently you cant manually tell the camera which lens you are using. Im sure this is to motivate the sales of the postcoding your current lenses. This is just lame. It would be a relativly simple softwear addition to allow you to tell the camera which lens your using in the menu. I for one don't care to much because A) I can correct it in photoshop for the JPGS i need to (in camera correction doesn't apply to raws anyway). am planning on coding some of my lenses myself (engraver tool, white and black hobby enamel) C) love viginetting. I'd like to clear up some of the misunderstandings about the 6-bit coding. Simply, the 6-bit coding "passes" information from the lens to the body. The information is used 1) at capture and 2) during post processing. The information used 1) at capture is centered around metering and exposure. Since you have the best light meter anyone can ever wish for in the M8 (the RGB histogram on the review LCD), looking at the information recorded will provide more accurate results than any exposure meter ever could (excluding TTL flash). This leaves us with the usage of the 6-bit information 2) during post processing. As Stephen pointed out, the information will be used mostly for image correction. Since EXIF information can easily be added or modified using an EXIF editor (i.e., adding the same information to the file as the 6-bit coding does), that is the simplest route to getting the advantages of 6-it coding without having the lenses coded. Furthermore, coding non-Leica lenses would be a moot point (at this stage) as it would require the post-processing software to have a "table" of post processing parameters specific to these non-Leica lenses (vignetting, etc). However, the nice thing about digital is that everyone has the ability to add the missing EXIF information and create (and share) our own parameters for image correction. Maybe I should post this in its own thread? Regards, JR Geoffrion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnll Posted October 17, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 17, 2006 John--Your guess is correct ... (snip) Thanks, Howard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnll Posted October 17, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 17, 2006 ... Since EXIF information can easily be added or modified using an EXIF editor (i.e., adding the same information to the file as the 6-bit coding does), that is the simplest route to getting the advantages of 6-it coding without having the lenses coded. ... True, but one advantage of having lens information encoded is that it will be recorded in the EXIF for later reference. This obviates the need for manually recording the lens used for each andevery shot, or series of shots. It also makes the info available to compatible flash units. This is less critical for me, as I tend to usually use an SLR when I am using flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgeoffrion Posted October 17, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 17, 2006 True, but one advantage of having lens information encoded is that it will be recorded in the EXIF for later reference. This obviates the need for manually recording the lens used for each andevery shot, or series of shots. It also makes the info available to compatible flash units. This is less critical for me, as I tend to usually use an SLR when I am using flash. For none Leica lenses, you have no choice since there doesn't appear to be provision for 3rd party lenses in the 6-bit coding... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted October 18, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 18, 2006 from the manual - note that exposure metering doesn't work with Super-angulon 21mm f/3.4 or f/4 lenses, or Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 with serial numbers earlier than 2314921 I wonder what the issue is here? is it mostly just the max aperture? or something specific about those lenses? i.e., will it work with all of the CV lenese that are max aperture of f/4 or f/5.6? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LADP Posted October 18, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 18, 2006 This is a very similar sytem to one employed with Arri film camera magazines. mike Mike, are you a cinematographer, AC, or technician for motion picture cameras? Just curious. I used to work for Arriflex a number of years ago, indirectly anyway. I worked for Camera Service Center in NYC when Arri bought CSC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share #54 Posted October 18, 2006 I think you guys are greatly exagerating the postprocessing related to the coding. It is no kind of magic bullet. Vignetting correction and POSSIBLY some chromatic abberation correction is most likely all it does. If it did more wouldn't you think you would have the option to apply these alterations to the RAW data? Otherwise you woulld have (in some scenarieos) the possibility of the modified JPG outperforming the RAW as far as final image goes, not very likely. _mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share #55 Posted October 18, 2006 I'm currently a Seattle based DP. But I worked my way up as an AC. CSC was good to me the only time I had to use them. Most often If i'm shooting in NY I fly a camera out from here, because It's usually so turn and burn. _mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrgeoffrion Posted October 18, 2006 Share #56 Posted October 18, 2006 ...Vignetting correction and POSSIBLY some chromatic abberation correction is most likely all it does. If it did more wouldn't you think you would have the option to apply these alterations to the RAW data? Otherwise you would have (in some scenarios) the possibility of the modified JPG outperforming the RAW as far as final image goes, not very likely. Mike, The potential corrections also include distortion in addition to vignetting and CA. These options are a function of what the specific raw converter supports. For example, Bibble and DxO support automatic distortion correction while ACR supports manual CA and vignetting corrections. IMHO, the strength of the information resides for the correction of RAW files rather than applying the corrections to in-camera JPGs (since some of these corrections can be "destructive"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted October 18, 2006 Share #57 Posted October 18, 2006 For none Leica lenses, you have no choice since there doesn't appear to be provision for 3rd party lenses in the 6-bit coding... The best bet might be to code for the Leica lens needing the same exact corrections as your un-coded third party lens. It could even be of a different FL or max aperture than the lens one is trying to code. One would need a lot of info and careful tests before this could be determined. There is thus a potential cottage industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 18, 2006 Share #58 Posted October 18, 2006 On page 86 of the manual it says that "Exposure metering is not possible with" ... two 21mm Super-Angulon lenses - also some early Elmarit 28/2.8 lenses. Does anyone know why? Is it because of the depth they penetrate the camera? Is there any way of knowing if this would also apply to the CV 21/4? The CV 21/4 and also the CV 15/4.5 worked just fine on my M 6 TTL, also on a Bessa. The old badger from the Age of Flashpowder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 18, 2006 Share #59 Posted October 18, 2006 I think it's to do with the lens projecting into camera throat which gets in the way of the light meter sensor's view of the whilte stripe across the shutter curtains. The shutter sits further forward in the M8 than in the M6/M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted October 18, 2006 Share #60 Posted October 18, 2006 Is there any way of knowing if this would also apply to the CV 21/4? My CV21/4 and 28mm Elmarit-M (the E49 mount) is identical in how far back they protrude. The Elmarit is listed as OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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