Digilux 3 Spots

[sos song]

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Hello to all.

 

I am an architect using a Digilux 3 to record some of my projects and had a new experience over the weekend. I took several images of a lobby and each image has what appear to be water spots on the lens. Yes, there were some dust specks on the lens, but the images that I took after the lobby shots are without the spots, so I don't think the dust caused it. The spots also appear in several images before I got to the lobby, but the subject is very busy and they are more difficult to see. I went back the next day to re-take the images and the spots are gone, so that should mean something.

 

The attached images are the best two examples of the worst appearance of the spots. One thing that I considered was that the overhead can lights caused little flares, but would that explain how two images from slightly different locations has the spots in exactly the same places? The lens stayed in place from beginning to end.

 

Some specifics:

Digilux 3 at ISO 100 with Olympus 11-22 lens at F22 at 1.3 seconds.

 

My hope is that one of you good people will figure out what I did wrong and let me know how to avoid the same problem in the future.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Kevin

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[ravduc]

The D-3 and all other four third cameras (Olympus) have internal dust shakers which are extremely efficient. I own several Olympus E cameras and also the D-3 and I have never had any dust on my sensors. I do however think that what you are seing is on the sensor and looks more like oil spots which may have been produced by the internal mechanism of the camera. I might be wrong for I have never heard of anyone having this problem with four third cameras. Canon users have complained about this. Did you ever use a can of compressed air to clean the inside of the camera? These cans often spray propellent as well as air. I would have the sensor cleaned.You can either do it yourself or have it done by Leica or a reputed retailer.

[sos song]

Nope. No compressed air or other inappropriate touching!

[John Thawley]

Perhaps residual left from condensation?

 

It only has to be very, very minor when you shoot at f/22.

[sos song]

I can't discount condensation as a possibility. However, I was shooting indoors for about 3 hours before these were taken and the weather in north Florida this time of year is just about perfect - cool and dry.

[ravduc]

I can't see how this can be anything but something on the sensor (pollen,dust or oil). Have you tried pointing the camera at something else and using the smallest aperture? If they show up again in exactly the same place, then you know for sure that the spots are on the sensor. Try holding the camera horizontally and turning it on and off several times to activate the high frequency dust shaker.

[John Thawley]

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I can't discount condensation as a possibility. However, I was shooting indoors for about 3 hours before these were taken and the weather in north Florida this time of year is just about perfect - cool and dry.

 

Yes.... but it wasn't two months ago. The problem with these types of spots is they aren't apparent until you're slammed at f/22.

 

I clean my Canon bodies endlessly... I'm talking nearly once a week... three of them. I run into these transparent spots often when I'm trying to shoot pan shots at 1/15 sec. The aperture gets pegged and spots similar to this will rear the ugly heads.

 

JT

[sos song]

OK.

 

Let's say that there was something on the sensor. Now my rather naive question is "How to know before the next time that I go out and spend several hours setting up some shots?" I enjoy the challenge of getting the scene set properly (avoiding the detritus of normal work life), but having to re-do the effort gets old pretty quick. Is there some way to tell if there is a problem? I had reviewed the photos as I was taking them, but the sun was falling directly on the view screen so I really couldn't see much of anything. I was using Live Mode and had a black umbrella over my head for shade so I could see the screen while I was getting set up.

 

As I write this I have another idea. Is it possible that some light seeped through the viewfinder on a long exposure? I remember this kind of issue with my Digilux 2.

[John Thawley]

OK.

 

Let's say that there was something on the sensor. Now my rather naive question is "How to know before the next time that I go out and spend several hours setting up some shots?" I enjoy the challenge of getting the scene set properly (avoiding the detritus of normal work life), but having to re-do the effort gets old pretty quick. Is there some way to tell if there is a problem? I had reviewed the photos as I was taking them, but the sun was falling directly on the view screen so I really couldn't see much of anything. I was using Live Mode and had a black umbrella over my head for shade so I could see the screen while I was getting set up.

 

As I write this I have another idea. Is it possible that some light seeped through the viewfinder on a long exposure? I remember this kind of issue with my Digilux 2.

 

 

What is possible is light was reflecting OFF the face of the sensor then onto the back of the lens. A zig zag if you will. I get with race car headlights.... only stronger and just two of them.

 

Regarding checking your sensor for spots;

 

Put a card in then set your aperture to f/22 or completely stopped down. Then aim at a bright white source or even the clear sky... make it out of focus.

 

Now download the image .... or zoom in on the preview screen (thought that may not be enough resolution)... download it and zoom in all over the frame. You can even try that now. Light up a piece of white poster board and do the same as outlined above.

 

JT

[John Thawley]

What is possible is light was reflecting OFF the face of the sensor then onto the back of the lens. A zig zag if you will. I get with race car headlights.... only stronger and just two of them.

JT

 

Looking closer... I think that may be it. The longer exposure is probably emphasising it. BUT run the sensor test as I suggested. But the angles of the spots to the ceiling lights are making me kind of suspicious..

 

JT

[farnz]

... but having to re-do the effort gets old pretty quick. .../quote]

On the positive side, they clean up fairly easily in the shots you've posted so you shouldn't need to re-shoot it. I hope you don't mind but I downloaded your first image and cleaned it up in about 10 minutes; the only difficult bit was the spot at the top left corner of the cupboard on the right. Here's the result:

 

Pete.

 

(PS, I had to drop the jpeg quality to upload so you may see jpeg or quantising artifacts.)

 

 

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[ravduc]

Hello Sos Song,

 

If you are going to be doing long exposures on a tripod (without your eye covering the eyepiece), you will need to cover the viewfinder otherwise light will seep in and affect exposure etc. The D3 comes with a viewfinder cover. If you no longer have this, just hang a lens cap on the rubber eyepiece or use black tape. Just make sure that no light penetrates into the camera through the viewfinder.

[sos song]

OK. The collective mind is strong. I like the reflecting off the sensor and/or seeping through the viewfinder ideas. I'll wait until tomorrow to run the tests so I can use the sun as my ultra-bright light source. My guess is that this is the problem.

 

Thanks very much for the help and suggestions.

[John Thawley]

OK. The collective mind is strong. I like the reflecting off the sensor and/or seeping through the viewfinder ideas. I'll wait until tomorrow to run the tests so I can use the sun as my ultra-bright light source. My guess is that this is the problem.

 

Thanks very much for the help and suggestions.

 

I wouldn't point at the sun... you just need a plain "white" surface slightly overexposed. I use the ceiling most of the time. Sharpness is meaningless... I even move the camera around. Just want to be sure you're completely stopped down... that way, if there are spots, you'll be photographing them.

 

I'm leaning toward reflections. Leaks don't really appear in little spots...

 

JT

[Ruhayat]

Interesting. I'd be interested to know what causes these. Over the weekend I went to shoot an event, and two of the cameras used that night showed spots similar to these on some of the pictures. I didn't get any on my Digilux 2. At first we thought the lenses were just dirty, but then some pictures turned out clean. We never did figure out what happened.

[John Thawley]

Interesting. I'd be interested to know what causes these. Over the weekend I went to shoot an event, and two of the cameras used that night showed spots similar to these on some of the pictures. I didn't get any on my Digilux 2. At first we thought the lenses were just dirty, but then some pictures turned out clean. We never did figure out what happened.

 

Spots on the sensor will make themselves more apparent as you stop down. It's a depth of field thing. If you're stopping down to f/22 or whatever, those spots are going to rear their ugly heads.

 

Pretty hard to get spots on a Digilux 2 since the lens is fix mounted.

 

JT

[Riley]

reshooting the scene, and doing a test shot for dust would be worthwhile, so we shall see what that uncovers.

 

Just an aside, shooting 4/3rds at F22 is way way into diffraction

the sweet spot for this lens is between F4.5-F6.3 with its sharpest i believe at F5.6

 

shooting indoors F4.5 is a very good aperture, focussed at around 7ft the DoF is from around 3ft+ to infinity.

 

F22 being very much into diffraction will make images inordinately soft

this opportunity shot and 100% crop was taken with an 11-22 at 44mm and F22

 

perhaps if you feel the need to slow the exposure down, you might use an ND filter

[sos song]

Hello again. I placed the original post about the spots on several images.

 

I did some testing this afternoon (not exhaustive) and have been unable to replicate the spots. Maybe that is a good thing. For one test set, I lined the eye piece up with the sun to see if direct sunlight would bounce in through the eye piece and have an affect, but I didn't see any spots. I tried images with both a high and low f-stop for comparison. There are differences, but not spotty ones. I also kept slowing the shutter speed, again to no avail.

 

I guess my next step is to clean and try again. Thanks for your attentions.

 

Kevin

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[John Thawley]

Hello again. I placed the original post about the spots on several images.

 

I did some testing this afternoon (not exhaustive) and have been unable to replicate the spots. Maybe that is a good thing. For one test set, I lined the eye piece up with the sun to see if direct sunlight would bounce in through the eye piece and have an affect, but I didn't see any spots. I tried images with both a high and low f-stop for comparison. There are differences, but not spotty ones. I also kept slowing the shutter speed, again to no avail.

 

I guess my next step is to clean and try again. Thanks for your attentions.

 

Kevin

 

Those tests make no sense.

 

Look... you're trying to find out if there is something on your sensor.

 

Aim the camera at something white. Stop down to f/22 and take a picture of the white surface. You can maybe even bump the exposure. Don't focus... maybe move the camera around.

 

Once you have done that, any spots on the sensor will appear on the downloaded image.

 

Honest, this is the proper test. I do it weekly... out of necessity.

 

John

[ravduc]

I agree with John. Use a white cardboard and don't point the camera at the sun. You never point a digital sensor directly at the sun, as you mentioned you would do. Set your camera on a tripod, block off the eyepiece and follow John's instructions. I still think that you have something on your sensor. If the spots show up again in the same place then you have something on your sensor and it will likely need cleaning. If you know longer see the spots, then maybe the dust shaker has done its job.