spylaw4 Posted October 5, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 5, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got my hands on an L1 (D-Zoom lens) today for a few minutes in a UK dealer's shop and wanted to set down my initial impressions for discussion/argument... whatever. First thought was "Gosh, this a seriously big beastie!" In fact it seems to be the lens that makes it so. It's quite a monster! Without the lens the body is fairly compact and light. I found it quite grippable. I was in the shop on a gray London day but pointing the lens towards the outside through the window display I found the EVF reasonably bright and certainly clearer than my D2's, relatively easy to get manual focus. There are plenty of controls for all sorts of things - more than I could cope with on a necessarily brief examination. I note that Matthew Yip in another thread said I also got the L1 in hand last week for 10mins, with its kit D-Zoom. Frankly, the gut feeling is, the workmanship of the lens is far from that of D2, let alone M or R lens. Apart from the 72 thread size, the barrel is quite rather plastic. More undesirable is the extending front part of the lens when zooming. I mean I must be spoiled by D2's relative compact form and internal zoom. I wasn't aware of the lens feeling "plasticy" but found it to be quite firm and smooth to adjust. I was surprised by the fact that the front part extends when zooming. Like Matthew I had rather expected it to be similar to the D2 in that respect. My acquisitive instincts have taken a bit of a knock as a result, especially when the UK L1's price seems to be about £1499! This does not bode well for the D3 cost premium. But more time trying the D3 out when it eventually arrives will be needed. All in all something to ponder over. Especially when I could get a second hand R with lenses for around the same price! Why oh why did Leica not just bring out a D2.1 with the improvements we have all been shouting loudly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 5, 2006 Posted October 5, 2006 Hi spylaw4, Take a look here L1 looking towards the D3 - first impressions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MP3 Posted October 5, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 5, 2006 Hi Brian, I absolutely agree it's the 'D-lens' which make the L1 a monster beast. The lens even make the entire grip a bit out of balance. On the other hand, the live view is a good idea intially to offer another way of picture taking. However, the flip-flip-flip mirror up shutter release mechanism actually leave this function almost unusable for non-static objects. Sigh...again. BTW for those of us waiting for fast compact primes. The latest D-25 Lux is not compact either. Sigh... again. Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted October 5, 2006 Share #3 Posted October 5, 2006 Brian I agree with your conclusions and we may even have both played with the same camera in the same shop! (Around the corner from that renovated church you recently shot?). I was a bit turned off by the size of the beast. The depth of body was a bit of a surprise, it is very thick. To be fair it is not weight which is an issue for me but bulk (I thought it quite lightweight). I'd be worried about turning quickly with thing around my neck in case I caught someone a glancing blow and punched their lights out! Looking at the stats for the D 25mm f1.4 anounced a couple of days ago - it actually appears to weigh more than the 14-55mm lens supplied with the camera which also does not bode well for a lightweight, carry-anywhere camera. I'm seriously pondering the V-LUX 1 which I tried out in its Panasonic form of the FZ-50 at the same shop. It handled nicely and was considerably more compact (obviously) than the L1. My only issue with that camera is the EVF which I would like to get away from and the inevitable compromised sensor quality and lense compared with the larger optical area of the 14-55mm. I'm sure the L1/D3 will be great for a lot of people but for me it is a bit of disappointment and won't really get a lot better with Leica stamped on it. I think the marketing does not make sense. It is such a jump from the D3 to say a R9/DMR or M8 plus lenses in price that I think a lot of people with lower budget will spend their money elsewhere. LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gepetto Posted October 5, 2006 Share #4 Posted October 5, 2006 I too handled an L1 a few weeks ago. Unfortunately the shop did not have a battery charged for it. They did not have a camera formally on display either but took one out for me straight from the box. We did put the battery from the box in which had enough power to turn on the screens but I could not take any photos etc. I thought overall it had a very good feel in the hand. Even though the size is chunkeir than the LC1/D2 the L1 did not feel to heavy. The change over from OVF to Live view is a bit loud clapity clap. I did not get to hear the shutter as the battery did not have enough juice. I brought an SD card with me too. I don't know why I did not bring a charged battery with me. The OVF was not as bad as what I was expecting. First impressions I would suggest before dismissing the L1/D3 to handle them in person. My only quams is the price. Brian when you said EVF did you mean the live view function using the LCD? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted October 5, 2006 Louis - quite right - same shop! Good point about the quick turn round, this fellow could seriously damage someone's health! But then with its weight and bulk could one actually turn that quickly? Currently on balance I may simply be keeping my D2. The only thing I miss with it (as I've said before) is a long lens. I know the V-lux has a decent tele- but I don't see that camera as a D2 replacement, maybe an add-on. Gepetto - I didn't think the shutter was all that noisy - but I"m not really up to speed on DSLR noises. I used both the viewfinder and the live view on the LCD, but in the short time I spent I did not go into that too closely. Just gathering quick first thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 5, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 5, 2006 ....now that both lenses are to be sold separately there will be many a panaleica lenses on the old Oly E-1 workhorse. As with most people my first impression is that there are better cameras on the market........................... with working batteries, these serve an important function when used with cameras, though some shops are yet to figure this out .. then maybe it is a lousy camera a marketing mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 5, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 5, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Gosh, this a seriously big beastie!" In fact it seems to be the lens that makes it so. It's quite a monster! So the penny drops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 5, 2006 Share #8 Posted October 5, 2006 ....that's what happens when a designer starts with a brick and is asked to improve on the shape!... so he adds a giant cylinder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted October 5, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 5, 2006 Hi Dear I got the feeling the L1 clone are not likely to stand the dslr competition. (I cannot say the same for D3 as the magic leica badge and price premium will turn it automatically into a noble niche product). In fact, the street price at Japan is dropping significantly. Same may happen soon in other parts of the world if sales of this 1st Pana dslr doesn't show any improvement. Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted October 5, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 5, 2006 I just got my copy of LFI today and there's a good sized picture of the D3 (and also on the back cover). Maybe it was the angle of the shot. Maybe for once, the silver finish doesn't seem to do it for me. But, aside from the problems it has like the dim peephole of a viewfinder to get optical SLR viewing, and the clapity clap clap and back again so you can enjoy live view (which seems odd since, after all, isn't it an SLR?), overall it seems a little disporportionate. Unlike the svelte D Lux's 2 and 3 and the C Lux. Now it could be because it's all clad in black but the L1 doesn't seem as weird. And I'm sure both the L1 and the D3 will take utterly fantastic shots (if the E-330 shots on some other threads are any indication). As did it's wonderful predecessor, the D2 (which I just sent in for button repairs). I have the LX1. And really enjoy. So for my money, I think I'm going to save my boxtops for the M8. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted October 6, 2006 Share #11 Posted October 6, 2006 Brian I think depending on the whether you own a Digilux 2 or a D-LUX 2 the new offerings present a connundrum for existing owners. Clearly, as a D-LUX 2 owner I've become used to a small, use anywhere camera so the leap from that to the D3, now I've seen it, is a bit daunting, regardless of its optical superiority. I can understand why if you have a Digilux 2 you might also find it an unsatisfying prospect. I'm wondering whether to go back to the same shop and try out the R-D1 they had in the window with a s/h leica 28mm M they also had for sale? Or alternatively save for the next 5 years :-) for a M8 LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 6, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 6, 2006 The R-D1 sounds good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted October 6, 2006 Share #13 Posted October 6, 2006 Absolutely agree. With the latest L1/D3 offer, current D2 users will go to M8, used M8 or R-D1. Best, Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted October 6, 2006 Share #14 Posted October 6, 2006 Just take a quick look the sales figure of current mainstream DSLRs in Japan for July, August and September ... none of us should be surprised that the D3 won't even make it on the chart. Kiss X is the 400D, Kiss N is the 350D ... Olympus and Fuji were totally neglected. I guess it's politically safe to say the L1 seems to be a business disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted October 6, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 6, 2006 Simon's chart is a scientific and statisticial proof of we users' opinions and feeling towards the L1/D3. It's just as expected. The LC1/D2 clone are already a small niche segment market. Now L1/D3 may be destinated to the Pana/Leica museum... very soon - "C3 LV DSLR-SO, the clap-clap-clap live view dslr for static objects". Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted October 6, 2006 Share #16 Posted October 6, 2006 It's their own fault for not listening to their customers. Who asked for this? There were so many posts here and on other messageboards simply asking for a Digilux 2 with a 4/3 sensor. They were told it was impossible. Now along comes Sigma who has put an even larger sensor into a much smaller body. So they could have done it after all. It's just so frustrating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted October 6, 2006 Share #17 Posted October 6, 2006 It's their own fault for not listening to their customers. Who asked for this? There were so many posts here and on other messageboards simply asking for a Digilux 2 with a 4/3 sensor. They were told it was impossible. Now along comes Sigma who has put an even larger sensor into a much smaller body. So they could have done it after all. It's just so frustrating! As the Sigma DP1 does not have a built in viewfinder, so does it mean this compact large sensor camera (everybody here asking for) will offer live view on its 2.5" LCD. Interesting and anticipating... Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Santa Posted October 6, 2006 Share #18 Posted October 6, 2006 Absolutly agree with you john.I always have thought, this forum must be important for Leica People........Now I think I´m wrong. It seems that Leica is fixed only at M8. They must think there are plenty of people, amateurs and professionals, that simply can´t afford it, so a D2.1 will be the logical step for Leica and his fans. Why not????. I´ll wait with my dlux2, I´m sure that something like a D2 will came in the next months. There is too much difference in price between V lux and Digilux 3, I think there is rom for at least two compact leicas in this space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted October 6, 2006 Share #19 Posted October 6, 2006 re the stats considering the low production run of L1 im surprised it registers on the chart compare the 3,000 units a month against 80,000 units a month of the big 2 perhaps that puts it in perspective Riley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si2006 Posted October 8, 2006 Share #20 Posted October 8, 2006 I can say that I am the happy owner of an L1. The Leica lens gives outstanding images and is a pleasure to work with. I think to quibble about size and bulk of the kit simply ignores the fact that quality DSLR's are not compact or prosumer cameras. Take a hold of the Leica R8 - now that is a brick if ever I held one. Also, I have a DLux 2 and the absence of an optical view finder is a real short comming, if you wish to compose and take shots using proper technique. The L1 is a leisurely camera for the thoughtful photographer with some time to spare in composing and shooting - who likes to be apart from the nikon/cannon crowd. (Be assured I don't work for Pana, Leica or Oly). I am enjoying my time with the L1. I am also looking forward to the M8. But with its proposed price tag it will have its work cut out to truly impress (still no images for us to reveiw yet). Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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