Don'tknowmuch Posted October 12, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello. Please excuse me if I seem mad, but I am. Almost in tears with frustration... Just tried to take film out of Leica 1... I heard a noise from within that seemed like the end of the film releasing from the take-up spool, only to find it wasn't the end at all and there are now about 15 frames lying on the table in front of me that will never be seen. Yesterday I really enjoyed meeting a herd of cows, distributed photogenically between me and the sun, with mist lying all around, and I was trying to be James Ravillious shooting into the light and had made a hood and...Oh Bol****s I won't go on, there's no need and it won't do any good, but I know that all the most wanted images are now gone. I'm cross with myself for being so hopeless. Is there a definite indication that I'm missing that the film has released from the take up spool when winding back into the cassette? I wasted a whole film once already, thankfully before exposing it, by thinking that the film might not have been taken up on to the take-up spool, but being afraid it had gone on a bit so wound a bit back only to find I had completely wound it into the cassette and I can't get it out. That's one thing, and I've now realised how I can load it better, but can anyone assure me that there's a foolproof way of KNOWING when the film's off the take-up spool but not inside the cassette when using an M2? I've never ever lost exposures like this with other cameras - I feel awful. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Hi Don'tknowmuch, Take a look here Extreme frustration and anger with myself. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Adrian Lord Posted October 12, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 12, 2008 If it is any consolation I have had similar problems with my MP and to a lesser extent with my M2. I prefer the old fashioned M2 take up spool to the tulip thing in the MP which I don't trust at all. I find any kinks in the film lead/first few inches tends to cause all sorts of jamming and wind on problems too. As for rewinding, there should be a noticeable drop in tension as it comes off the spool and then you can remove? Welcome to the world of Leica. It's enough to make you dig out your old FM2 sometimes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antistatic Posted October 12, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 12, 2008 Sorry to hear. I'm sure we could all chime in with buggered up film stories. I once had a spool slip up the spindle inside the tank when developing so the top 1/3rd of the whole roll was underdeveloped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishimage Posted October 12, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 12, 2008 Jim, sorry to read bout your troubles .. When rewinding i always count the number of rotations of the rewind knob .. One rotation = 1 frame gives you a good idea of when the leader should release from the take up spool. So 36 frames shot should relate to 36 rotations of the rewind knob .. or thereabouts you wont be too far out if you use this method.. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 12, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 12, 2008 Jim, That's just familiarity and it won't happen again. The sound of the film leaving the spool and dragging across the gate is distinctive when you've done a couple. Few things you can do: Keep winding back until there's no doubt at all that the film is safely home. Test by winding on and check if the take-up rotates. Put a kink in the film leader as it will require a slight tug to release it. This has the valuable benefit of ensuring your film takes-up. Many reject this fail-safe idea, but I swear by it as during a twenty film shoot the pressure of the moment can cause you to loose a roll occasionally. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted October 12, 2008 Share #6 Posted October 12, 2008 sorry to hear this, but there is a 100% solution to avoid exposure of the first frames: roll the film back into the container and use this: Kaiser Filmrückholer online bestellen / kaufen Ilford and/or Hama offer this cheap item which pulls out the leader of the film. You need patient and a good ear plus very silent surrounding in order to hear the "click" inside the container but at the end no frames will be lost. Regards Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tknowmuch Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted October 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just feel so stupid, but having been aware that I might lose the film right back into the cassette, I chickened out way too early. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions; including going back to an SLR. My OM's look very nice right now. I have been sorely tempted to give up, but have just looked again at one of Ravillious' books, and I'm back on track. I'll look out for the film-extractor; thanks Bernd. Ho hum.... ... ... Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted October 12, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 12, 2008 Jim, hang on in there as others have said....My IIF was a bit finnicky at first, but if I pay real close attention to the leader trimming, and watch that the take up spool has gripped the film holed then it works fone.I too wasted a couple of films but its just patience...I loaded and unloaded a test film 10 times to get the hang of it...now its easy. Also had the urge to burn some film yesterday and am currently teaching my 3 year old to read my weston .....he shouted EV 8 for me before I took this pic....he was just right:D stay with it andy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/65203-extreme-frustration-and-anger-with-myself/?do=findComment&comment=682275'>More sharing options...
MPerson Posted October 12, 2008 Share #9 Posted October 12, 2008 Well, been there done that! I now can feel when the tension comes off as the films slips from the spool but I always rewind back into the film cannister anyway as I have had scratched negs from crud getting on the felt light trap of the cannister. I just remove the end of the cannister with a can opener when I load up the developing tank. Probably worth wasting a film to get the feel of the tension when rewinding a few times but you will develop the knack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifie Posted October 12, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 12, 2008 Done that, slapped the base back on real quick, supprisingly few frames where ruined. It is worse to realise you are on frame 39. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 12, 2008 Share #11 Posted October 12, 2008 aware that I might lose the film right back into the cassette' date=' I chickened out way too early.... Jim.[/quote'] :confused: I always wind the film back into the cassette to ensure I don't load it again in error. Fail-safe. I have a Kodak bottle opener that I keep especially for the purpose and labs have no problem with it IME. Why would you keep the leader out if the film was finished ? Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted October 12, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 12, 2008 Wait until you go to pop the can out of the body and it falls to the floor, spits open and spills it's film guts all over the concrete! Wee! And then there the famous "Oops my JOBO tank top is not on right and now the developer is all over the floor" move that I believe I may have invented! How about the "Put the fixer in FIRST" move. A CLASSIC! Oh yes, don't forget the "Put the roll in the camera TWICE" move that gives double exposures on only your best shots! Man, I could go on like this forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted October 12, 2008 Share #13 Posted October 12, 2008 Wind all the way back into the can. You can feel the tension change when the leader leaves the take up spool and again when it goes into the can. You can hear it too. If you want your leader out of your can, just buy a leader retriever (get a nice one - the plastic type with the two sliders) and do it at home. Thats what I do. That way when I'm shooting, I never reuse a film, but when I get home and can sort and label my film for development, I retrieve the leaders. I like retrieving the leader for development for two reasons - either to be lazy and load from the canister directly onto the reel, or to trim the leader nice and straight in the light before I pop the can open in the dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tknowmuch Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted October 12, 2008 Thanks all. I don't feel quite so stupid thanks to all of you sharing some of your previous troubles, but it doesn't make me feel any better about the lost images... Why would I not want to roll it back into the cassette? Well; when sending film away (and I don't any more as any colour I do on digital and I do all my own B+W) I always used to roll it all the way back in as an indication of it being a used film, but for B+W I don't have a darkroom and I load the tank under my duvet, under a couple of towells and a dressing gown with the curtains drawn; that's the sophistication I enjoy! So I can't fiddle with tin openers or anything like that; I wouldn't feel what was going on. And, to be honest, I've never managed to cleanly get the top off a cassette. So I don't roll it all the way into the reel, and with my OM's I certainly can feel the relief of tension and hear the normal things, but for some reason the Leica 1 doesn't give me the same level of signals. Anyway; I'm going to buy one of these film extractors (an Ilford one?) and then I'll be as fool-proof as this fool can be. Thanks again. The un-spoiled images are currently drying hanging from the lamp in the sitting room. Do you think I need a darkroom? Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted October 12, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 12, 2008 Jim - why not get a changing bag? I got a couple from this guy, good quality and he can be trusted. Changing bags Usual disclaimers - just a satisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted October 12, 2008 Share #16 Posted October 12, 2008 Get a changing bag and a couple of reloadable cassette and then just pop the top off the original cassette and put the film back in the reloadable, snap the top on and you are good to go. I also find having a changing bag handy when shooting digital in the field when changing lenses with Texas dust blowing all around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted October 12, 2008 Share #17 Posted October 12, 2008 Wait until you go to pop the can out of the body and it falls to the floor, spits open and spills it's film guts all over the concrete! Wee! And then there the famous "Oops my JOBO tank top is not on right and now the developer is all over the floor" move that I believe I may have invented! How about the "Put the fixer in FIRST" move. A CLASSIC! Oh yes, don't forget the "Put the roll in the camera TWICE" move that gives double exposures on only your best shots! Man, I could go on like this forever. Been there! Done that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 12, 2008 Share #18 Posted October 12, 2008 Jim, That's just familiarity and it won't happen again. The sound of the film leaving the spool and dragging across the gate is distinctive when you've done a couple. Few things you can do: Keep winding back until there's no doubt at all that the film is safely home. Test by winding on and check if the take-up rotates. Put a kink in the film leader as it will require a slight tug to release it. This has the valuable benefit of ensuring your film takes-up. Many reject this fail-safe idea, but I swear by it as during a twenty film shoot the pressure of the moment can cause you to loose a roll occasionally. Rolo Excellent ideas, all of them. I second these. Wilfredo+ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
razerx Posted October 16, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 16, 2008 Happened to me more than once. Now I religiously rewind until I am sure the leader is all the way in the cartridge because there were times when I successfully left the leader out duing rewind I end up double exposing the roll by mistake, losing twice as many shots in the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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