ChrisC Posted October 14, 2008 Share #21 Posted October 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ..... what I meant: I never uprez. Ever..... Perhaps my $250,000 printer running $20,000 software requires less fiddling and hand-holding than a $5,000 inkjet system...... David - Thanks for the clarification. .............. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 Hi ChrisC, Take a look here A2 prints .... ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
buckhorn_cortez Posted October 15, 2008 Share #22 Posted October 15, 2008 In my store, all the M8 prints hanging on the walls are 20x30 inches and they look phenomenal. We print them in our own pro lab on photographic paper using a Durst Theta. I perform no uprezing at all. In fact, I use the same exact 10MP JPG file (processed from the M8 DNG) to print my 4x6 proofs as I do to print a 20x30. Granted, we are using a Kodak professional lab management software which does its own render, but I've had customers give me uprezed files and frankly, the only thing that is increasing is the amount of hard drive space. I have seen no appreciable difference in output quality from a native res camera file or an uprezed one. You just can't create more information than what your camera captured. This has been my experience in the 18 years that I have done digital imaging professionally . David David - the Durst Theta has a built-in interpolation program. You feed it the file - it automatically interpolates to the native resolution required and the final print size. If you fed the Durst a file that was upsized it would re-interpolate to its native format - so you don't gain anything. But, you can't make a large print with the wrong amount of information - file without enough information for the print size - or, you'll get low resolution no matter what type of machine you use. With an inkjet printer a RIP provides that function, on a LightJet or Durst Theta - the machine's processor does the work to match the requirements of the machine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 16, 2008 Share #23 Posted October 16, 2008 Tim - Well that's clearly put. You are right about the Juju aspect of large print file management, the confusion is, I think, because the processes keep improving and too few people are well placed enough to keep up to date with those improvements. I don't recall seeing before your case for scaling files 200% when the print resolution would otherwise fall below 180dpi. I understand working that way with Epson printers whose native resolution works at multipliers of 360, but I didn't think it was an industry standard and would have thought an HP printer would have a different native resolution. However, the 200% solution followed by printer driver consolidation is intuitively attractive to me and I'd really like to hear other feedback on the idea. Perhaps current 'output' scaling now makes redundant the idea of working one's file at the largest output size [which of necessity included accurately scaling the file prior to starting post-production]. I can see some possible working disadvantages to working with the smaller file size, though the storage bonus is a big incentive. Would anyone else with working experience regarding the two distinct processes [software versus print driver scaling] like to comment on their pros and cons? [EDIT - I should add that I recall Buckhorn Cortez' informative recommendations to use Quimage software for scaling, but it is a Windows only application and I have read elsewhere that there are impracticalities for it's use with a Mac [i use Mac]]. A1 is a pretty damned big print from a small sensor camera Tim, were there landscape images included in your show as well as 'people' pictures? Do you have an image of the show demonstrating that exhibition scale you'd be willing to post? ................. Chris Hi Chris, Sorry for the slow reply, was away from the correct file to post to show you the exhibition. The ones visible in this shot are a mixture of M8 and 1DSIII. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! WRT to David F's post, I agree in principle and philosophy with everything he says except for the fact that he is clearly using software and hardware that are out of the league of most people here. My experience of working with current top of the line 24" wide roll printers from both Epson and HP is that as I stated, if you can maintain 180 pixels or higher without scaling then don't scale but if your resolution falls lower than that you should scale. Otherwise he and I appear in total agreement. Best T Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! WRT to David F's post, I agree in principle and philosophy with everything he says except for the fact that he is clearly using software and hardware that are out of the league of most people here. My experience of working with current top of the line 24" wide roll printers from both Epson and HP is that as I stated, if you can maintain 180 pixels or higher without scaling then don't scale but if your resolution falls lower than that you should scale. Otherwise he and I appear in total agreement. Best T ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/65097-a2-prints/?do=findComment&comment=686175'>More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 16, 2008 Share #24 Posted October 16, 2008 Tim - Thanks for posting the image. Hope the show went well for you. ............... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted October 17, 2008 Share #25 Posted October 17, 2008 WRT to David F's post, I agree in principle and philosophy with everything he says except for the fact that he is clearly using software and hardware that are out of the league of most people here. ... Pro labs like ours actually put this capability within the reach of anyone. While we spend six figures for a digital printer, we only charge $20 for a fully color-corrected custom 20x30 print. I would venture to say that $20 is in anyone's league. To use an analogy.... you could spend hundreds of hours (and thousands of dollars) getting your private pilot's license, then buy yourself a small plane for $200K and fly yourself wherever you'd like to go (that is within range). Or, you could buy a $200 seat on a $30 million jet flown by pilots with 20 years experience and just arrive uneventfully at your destination. For better or worse, I tend to view photographic printing this way. Many people enjoy the art and science of printing and unlike flying, your life is generally not at risk if you do it yourself. Print at home if you enjoy it and like spending the time to do it. Me, I'm a pragmatist and have grown up in a pro lab, so I don't even have a printer at home. I've been spoiled by having nice toys at my disposal ever since I began shooting at the age of seven. Long before I knew how to drive a car, I was operating processing and printing machines. I learned from my father who has been correcting color for a living for 40 years (and still continues to do so on a daily basis in our lab). We are all the product of our upbringing. As a result, I am obsessive about image quality and judging based on the end result - a print. I shoot Leica because I want the best quality, both in terms of image as well as mechanics and ergonomics. I choose to make my prints on our Durst (rather than our Epsons) because I prefer the end result. Simple as that. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 17, 2008 Share #26 Posted October 17, 2008 ..... we only charge $20 for a fully color-corrected custom 20x30 print...... David - Your contribution to the forum is greatly respected, and I would not like to think that your post was made in any way defensively. I think I need to point out that if you were offering the above deal in the UK we would all be using you, including Tim most likely. He, like me is a Brit, and I wouldn't know where to go to get the printing expertise I would trust for exhibition prints; and if I could find the expertise it would be nowhere near £20 per 20x30 print, yet alone $20. I know where to get whacked out prints; but they are no good to me, as I'm sure they are no good to Tim either. ................ Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 17, 2008 Share #27 Posted October 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Pro labs like ours actually put this capability within the reach of anyone. While we spend six figures for a digital printer, we only charge $20 for a fully color-corrected custom 20x30 print. I would venture to say that $20 is in anyone's league. To use an analogy.... you could spend hundreds of hours (and thousands of dollars) getting your private pilot's license, then buy yourself a small plane for $200K and fly yourself wherever you'd like to go (that is within range). Or, you could buy a $200 seat on a $30 million jet flown by pilots with 20 years experience and just arrive uneventfully at your destination. For better or worse, I tend to view photographic printing this way. Many people enjoy the art and science of printing and unlike flying, your life is generally not at risk if you do it yourself. Print at home if you enjoy it and like spending the time to do it. Me, I'm a pragmatist and have grown up in a pro lab, so I don't even have a printer at home. I've been spoiled by having nice toys at my disposal ever since I began shooting at the age of seven. Long before I knew how to drive a car, I was operating processing and printing machines. I learned from my father who has been correcting color for a living for 40 years (and still continues to do so on a daily basis in our lab). We are all the product of our upbringing. As a result, I am obsessive about image quality and judging based on the end result - a print. I shoot Leica because I want the best quality, both in terms of image as well as mechanics and ergonomics. I choose to make my prints on our Durst (rather than our Epsons) because I prefer the end result. Simple as that. David Hi David, I have to say that if we had labs and people like you here, I would never have purchased a large format printer or acquired the skill to use it. In fact at the show in Portugal that I posted an image of, sponsored by Epson, out of 15 photographers exhibiting I was the only one who had that sort of gear to play with and so I got to help many of the others make their prints on the Epson printers, which was fascinating. As it is, the nastiest copy shop around will likely charge around £50 or often more for a 20x30 inkjet print. That's the base entry price and for that you'd get a bad attitude and the colour correction skills of a bat! t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted October 17, 2008 Share #28 Posted October 17, 2008 Wow. Maybe I should open a lab in the UK! It's hard to believe that the options for photographers are so limited with regards to output. Chris, not being defensive. Just offering a different point of view. Many here are familiar with inkjet, but few (these days) consider enlisting the services of a pro lab. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 17, 2008 Share #29 Posted October 17, 2008 Wow. Maybe I should open a lab in the UK! It's hard to believe that the options for photographers are so limited with regards to output.... David - You'd be horrified at the prices we pay here for crap. Like Tim, I wouldn't have bought into Epson if I could have avoided it, and like Tim, I'd like to have your lab in my vicinity. And don't get me started on Epson's Robber-Baron ink prices here..... ................ Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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