Peter58 Posted October 10, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello all, I have a Russian Leica llD copy that I have fixed enough so that I can use it. The film shot number counter spring was broken when I got the camera causing a condition which prevented the film being rewound. I removed the broken spring, so now the counter free wheels and does no function. But at least now I can rewind the film, well on condition that I hold down the shutter relese button while rewinding. The rewind lever is not functioning at all. I feel that soon I will get myself a real Leica Camera in thread mount, as I do already have an M5 and a host of lenses including 5 screw mount lenses. My choice right now is the Leica lllC because of cost reasons. I will need to purchase a Leitz Elmar 5cm f.3,5 collapsible lens as well. My concern is about the size of the lllC Leica camera. The Russian copy of the Leica llD even with it's 5cm f.3,5 collapsible lens mounted fits in my pants pocket when the lens is collapsed. I am very happy about this and I see why Oscar Barnack built the original Leica cameras this way. Meaning SMALL. The Leica lllD was redesigned and was a single casting which made it stronger than the llD. My question is about the size. Is the lllC the same size as the llD? I am confident that it is. I have read that the lllC body is 2.8mm longer than the llD, which makes no difference to me. Only the width and height are of concern to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Hi Peter58, Take a look here Is the Leica lllC same size as Leica llD. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted October 10, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2008 Welcome to the forum... and compliments for your intention to have an old "Barnack" !!! For me, any Leica usera should have one, fine or not, but just to touch & remember how the whole story begun... ; and, as you plan, one cannot have a Barnack without having also an Elmar 5cm... Regarding your question, the answer is simple: yes the IIIc is identical in size to II - model D (*), apart the 2,8mm in length you quote. IIIc aren't rare, and I'd suggest you to find a postwar item... something more than 400.000 s/n; but also, if you plan to use it regularly, maybe is better to consider the IIIf : I have both, and find the IIIf more "solid" in mechanics... of course it depends a lot on the conditions of the item you find... but IIIf (same size as IIIc) is the last of the "Barnacks" and no surprise it's globally the most refined, and obviously the youngest one can find. (*) I prefer to use the term "II - model D" , because the name "IID" expecially in Europe, can be misleading... Leitz, indeed, never listed a "IID" ... it was named "Leica II" in Europe and "Leica model D" in USA (on the contrary, a "IIID" did exist... a very rare model, basically a IIIc with self timer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter58 Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks for reply Luigi. I could swing the lllf and an Elmar 5cm f/3.5 or even the f/2.8 collapsible. I would love to find a Hektor 5cm f/2.5. My primary concern is the weight and size of the camera with lens. I have now fully come to the understanding of what Oskar Barnack and Max Berek had achieved. A high quality camera system that fits in your pocket, and if you know how to use it, allows for the fastest image capture time, faster than anything modern. For once you know the Sunny 16rules you can have the camera shutter speed set, the lens f stop set and the focus distance set and have already advanced the film. So all you need do is point and take the shot with no start up time or no shutter lag or no AF time. BTW I'm not really a new member. I used to be Peter55 and originally joined around 2006. For some reason beyond my control a few weeks ago when the new Leica S2 was announced I logged in this site and the site asked me to register so I did as Peter58 and after I did so I could no longer log in as Peter55. I'm confused now, as to why I was asked to register when I was already a member as Peter55. Over at Rangefinderforum around a year ago I could no longer log in. I was also Peter55. I have had no luck at all in getting the moderators over there to help me. Eventually I figured out for myself that the e-mail browser I was using was no longer accepted as it was a free site. I do have a paid internet subscription and when I used this and entered a new user ID and password the rangefinderforum sent the "registration completion e-mail" to someone else and not me. So I still cannot make comment over there as of today. I would like too as I have an Seiko/Epson RD-1 and a host of lenses as well as my M5 and Russian Leica ll copy. Welcome to the forum... and compliments for your intention to have an old "Barnack" !!! For me, any Leica usera should have one, fine or not, but just to touch & remember how the whole story begun... ; and, as you plan, one cannot have a Barnack without having also an Elmar 5cm...Regarding your question, the answer is simple: yes the IIIc is identical in size to II - model D (*), apart the 2,8mm in length you quote. IIIc aren't rare, and I'd suggest you to find a postwar item... something more than 400.000 s/n; but also, if you plan to use it regularly, maybe is better to consider the IIIf : I have both, and find the IIIf more "solid" in mechanics... of course it depends a lot on the conditions of the item you find... but IIIf (same size as IIIc) is the last of the "Barnacks" and no surprise it's globally the most refined, and obviously the youngest one can find. (*) I prefer to use the term "II - model D" , because the name "IID" expecially in Europe, can be misleading... Leitz, indeed, never listed a "IID" ... it was named "Leica II" in Europe and "Leica model D" in USA (on the contrary, a "IIID" did exist... a very rare model, basically a IIIc with self timer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifie Posted October 11, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 11, 2008 Peter, Welcome, it won't stop at a cast chassis model, C, F or G, you will get a 'proper' built up one too then a fixed lens one etc. etc.. Luigi, "but IIIf (same size as IIIc) is the last of the "Barnacks" does this mean a IIIG does not belong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 11, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 11, 2008 Peter, Welcome, it won't stop at a cast chassis model, C, F or G, you will get a 'proper' built up one too then a fixed lens one etc. etc.. Luigi, "but IIIf (same size as IIIc) is the last of the "Barnacks" does this mean a IIIG does not belong? Well... matter of taste and historical perspective... IIIG is the last of the SM Leicas, but its design is significantly different from the previous models, and the RF assembly is completely new: I'd say... if we decide to call "Barnacks" all the SM Leicas, clearly all derived (IIIG included) from the original "Leica 0" design, IIIG is of course of this breed; btw... to be pedant... Barnack died in 1936, so probably wasn't involved in the completely new process of die casting that brought to the IIIc design - an important improvement in manufacturing technology - and so one could even say thet the last "Barnack" strictly said, is the II - model D... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter58 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted October 12, 2008 Well my Russian Leica ll copy is a very nice camera, even though it is not working properly. So, I'm sure a real Leica ll would suit me fine. I took a few shots today using my Russian Leica ll and then put it in my pants pocket with the Elmar (copy) collapsed. Now 6 hours later I got to wandering. Where did I put my camera? Well, well, it was still in my pocket. Now to me this completly qualifies Oskar Barnacks purpose of a small film camera as I could not feel the camera in my pocket at all. These Barnack cameras are going to be my favorite cameras for sure. Lucky for me I have four LTM lenses already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardT Posted October 16, 2008 Share #7 Posted October 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for reply Luigi. I could swing the lllf and an Elmar 5cm f/3.5 or even the f/2.8 collapsible. I would love to find a Hektor 5cm f/2.5. Don't lose sight that you wanted a pocket camera. The Leica II and any of the 5cm f3.5 lenses fit the bill just perfectly. That is my pocket camera as well. It might be an imaginary perception but I don't get the same feeling with my III, IIIc and IIIf. Maybe it's because of the carrying strap eyelets on the later models. Also the f2.8 Elmar is a little larger and not as good as the later f3.5 models, at least wide open. The 5cm Hektor is not that hard to find. Try KevinCameras. They are a little pricey though. I would love to have one as well. I'm sure it would look very nice on my Black/nickel model II. For now the nickel 50mm f3.5 is a perfect match. Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifie Posted October 16, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 16, 2008 "These Barnack cameras are going to be my favorite cameras for sure" Oh yes, they are just so much fun. Working with Hi Tech all day it is a wonderful diversion to use a supurbly designed simple bit of kit. Bared to the bones photography, can't beat it. A big thank you to Oscar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter58 Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted November 1, 2008 Well I ended up with a working export version Zorki 1c and Industar 22. I must have gotten lucky but in my second roll of film I shot the best photograph of my life. It's an autum landscape scene and the colors are what make it so nice for me. There is also a soft wind blowing on the lake and this adds a dimension which I appreciate. So I started carrying my M5 again in order to have a 35mm lens ready. Then I started using my 28mm lens. Sooo, I just purchased for a very small sum a FED 1g. and a 28-135universal finder now I will mount the 28 on this camera. The Barnack camera and Max Berek's collapsible lenses are now my choice in photography. I feel lucky to have been brave enough to venture and see how they work. I have started selling off my DSLR equipment finally! They are all just to big and heavy to use as far as I am concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted November 1, 2008 Share #10 Posted November 1, 2008 Peter, your "journey" is similar to my own. Back in the days of film, I had "the best that money could buy" at the time. I used Contax RX and RTSIII with a range of optics. I also had Nikon for a while, working up to an F100, again with a range of glass. When the digital thing happened I stayed out for a while, then bought in gradually. My most favourite digital by far was the LC-1 that I still have (must get around to re-sensoring it one day). Now I have an Olympus DSLR with a range of lenses, but I hardly ever use it - last time was in the summer for a wedding. Conversely I have moved back in time in rangefinder terms, having gone M6 - M7 - M4 - IIIc - II - M2. The II is my favourite, for so many reasons - compactness, performance, simplicity, and many other factors. I know that if I nail the shot it is because I have done so, free from the "assistance" of any form of auto-focus -exposure or anything else. There is a Zen simplicity to the II that speaks to the soul. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter58 Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted November 1, 2008 I agree with you Bill, using the Sunny 16 Rule's and getting a nice photograph with your own skills and a simple and perfect Barnack camera and Berek collapsible lens is a wonderfull completeness in photography. I started with film around 1980 and made so many wonderfull photographs with a simple match needle Riccoh KR-5 and 50mm f/2.2 prime, well and also a couple of zooms. Then I got caught up in the digital craze. I ended up with 3 complete camera systems, one each of Canon-EOS, Nikon D1H and AIS and Pentax-K & M42. I think I spent over $38,000 US on this stuff, including the Canon 1Ds Mark ll with 10 "L" series lenses. I have 7 DSLR's and 5 film SLR's and 50 lenses. Along the way I also purchased several p&s including an expensive Leica D-Lux2. I also got very involved in home printing of my digital files, ending up with 4 printers including 2 13" x 19" printers and now the Wide Format 24" x 36" HP DesignJet 130 printer. Eventually I also got interested in the Leica System. I wanted an M8 but started with the M5 and first version 50mm f/1.4 Summilux. Followed with an Seiko/Epson R-D1 digital rangefinder, followed by more Leica M and LTM lenses. Finally I got brave and obtained the Barnack camera, my Zorki 1c. After all these years and 30,000 photo's I have found my camera system, and it fit's in my pants pocket. Very important is I always get actual photographic prints, and when I wish I can scan the neg's with my dedicated film scanner and make extra large prints any time I wish too. here is a link to my favorite landscape photo and it was taken with the Zorki 1c and Industar 22 collapsible lens. This is only a scan of a 4 x 6 print and not a scan from the negative. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/2963494862_a2a1095e40_b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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