Something is rotten in the S2 lens lineup

[carstenw]

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part of the beauty of this new system is that it isn't traditional mf..I know we have come just to accept the limited lens offerings of mf makers.. but here is the chance to have the range

of optics and the best optics made available to make large files.. I guess if people will buy they will keep bringing out new models.. but for me they have to start with the concept of making them as fast as possible as leica can do.. they would really cut this system at the knees with same-old slow lens. this is one area they can distance themselves from the pack. Don't waste time and money on slower lenses, make those later if you want to open system to a bigger group.

While agreeing with you, it is noticeably harder to make fast ASPH lenses in that size. There is a hard limit on how large the ASPH elements can be in diameter and still be made in the traditional Leica process. The new Noctilux has at least one element larger than that which has to be handled separately, partly accounting for its huge price, IIRC.

 

Making lenses for the S2 without ASPH elements will mean competing head-to-head with Zeiss on their own terms, and this will be a noticeably harder battle to make a clear win in.

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[paulmoore]

double post - sorry

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes, but that's because you are shooting suits instead of models Seriously, the 100mm lens proposed (not 110mm) is equivalent to 80mm on FF, so that is a classic Leica portrait lens. The 180mm sounds good for you though.

 

I shot models all last week on the workshop and the 150mm I used about 90 percent of the time for 3/4. Here easier to link this thread

 

Mamiya 150mm 2.8 revisited - The GetDPI Workshop Forums

[paulmoore]

While agreeing with you, it is noticeably harder to make fast ASPH lenses in that size. There is a hard limit on how large the ASPH elements can be in diameter and still be made in the traditional Leica process. The new Noctilux has at least one element larger than that which has to be handled separately, partly accounting for its huge price, IIRC.

 

Making lenses for the S2 without ASPH elements will mean competing head-to-head with Zeiss on their own terms, and this will be a noticeably harder battle to make a clear win in.

 

yes I know the difficulties.. but they are the best of the best.. and the schneider lenses I have for my rollei cover 6x6.. way bigger than the LeicaProFormat.. I am only a lens user not a designer so I don't know the limitations as others do.. but did you think that they would give m users a f1.4 wideangle?. I didn't see that coming.. they are gods..now what worries me a tad bit is the philosophical pov of head optics guy/gal.. if they are into just "perfect"

lenses then no we won't see some really fast stuff..I want both, those perfect 100mmf2.8macro/280f4 apo's and also the 80lux type of lens.. if they are of perfect chart mindset that 80lux is not going to happen. even if they can get it to cover the new LPF.

hires digital files with perfect optics might look good on paper or in charts but I think there are a lot of us who choose to deviate from that austere perfection, something my 150mm f2.8xenotar use to give me on 4x5.. not a perfect lens but perfect for many a shot.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

If I had a blank piece of paper and leica said okay give me a lineup that makes sense. Here is what i would give them after shooting the 645 format for awhile even though the S2 is slightly different but in S2 terms and sizing. Uses also example only

 

24mm 2.5 lot's of wide angle power to this. PJ lens and landscape use. FPS lens

 

30mm 3.5 T/S Nice lens would not change the specs. Interiors and exterior arch. FPS lens

 

45mm or 50mm 2.5 I would add this to the lineup in CS. Group photo lens equaling a 35mm in 35mm. CS lens

 

70mm 2.5 Normal CS lens

 

130mm or 140mm F2 lens. There fastest lens CS lens if they can. 3/4 length ,great wedding couple lens also

 

210mm 2.5 CS lens if they can . Portraits

 

350mm 3.5 FS lens keep size down

 

120mm T/S Macro lens. I would combine this for table top and macro. Like the Canon 90mm TSE which can focus very close for macro. Than add extension tubes for even closer work

 

1.4 Tele converter for the 210 and 350 loss of 1stop

 

30-90 zoom 3.5 . General purpose FPS lens or CS if it can be done

 

My one caveat is I don't know if CS will add bulk to a lens so reason i said if can be done. Otherwise try and keep the size down

[lxlim]

The fast lenses might be the next wave in 2010, just to keep the hype engine revving.

 

F1.4 for this format might not be impossible to build but impossible prices would certainly keep it exclusive

 

I think part of the problem is also how to keep the lenses small and the AF responsive.

[adan]

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Carsten: Leica said they positioned the S2 for pros they'd talked to who used an MF in the studio and then had a Canon 1Ds for location work.

 

I distinguish a big difference between a "walk-around" camera and lens ("I'm going out for a bit, and taking a camera just in case anything happens worth shooting") and a location camera ("I'm taking the models and the stylist and the product and the lights outdoors to a real location for a scripted shoot, but preferably without having to engage a safari guide to carry the camera.")

 

Leica's idea, as I read it, is that one can use the S2 for both studio and location - and use an M8 or R10 for "walk-around" (with whatever lens one likes). Instead of using a H3D for studio AND a 1Ds for locations AND a 50D/5D for "walk-around".

[carstenw]

Adan, I guess the question is if the 35mm-equiv. focal length is of no use to such work? Even if it is location work, the "look" might well want to mirror such walk-around use? I just find the gap rather large and conspicuous, and keep in mind that it doesn't exist to that degree in other systems, where there is typically both a 50mm and an 80mm lens. How popular is, say, the Zeiss 50mm for the Hasselblad?

[Guest Plaubel]

something is rotten in the state of austria (according to Nature). Was that on your mind while you wrote the title?

[carstenw]

No, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark", Shakespeare's Hamlet.

[manolo]

Carsten, Leica is just saving the 50 for a Summilux and Elmar when the SM comes out.

[pierovitch]

Carsten: Leica said they positioned the S2 for pros they'd talked to who used an MF in the studio and then had a Canon 1Ds for location work.

 

When the Pentax 67 came out it caused a change in location work. The S2 is aimed at a similar market. The finest quality images and optics with good handling. It was built for Photographers and not for creative directors who like to treat photographers as camera mere technicians. Next creative directors will want them to hang round their necks.

[Alberti]

I see the mention of athe S2 as a camera for pro's, but . . . if I wear a pinstripe suit, can I also buy one, P L E A S E.

Joking apart, marketing is complex. As a non-pro, I don't need a CS, but hey, I'd consider such a platform - if my Visoflex lenses would connect, just like Visoflex/Hasselblad rings exist. The Elmarit 90/2.8 is capable to handle 6x6 with ease; the new Macro-Elmar too. And look at the curves of the 24/3.8, sure to fit this sensor size (apart maybe from some vignetting). So I'd like on such an 'el cheapo' extension of the lens range.

Alberti