manolo Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share #21 Posted September 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) So I just want so say that S2 camera (modulated) would be THE camera for me, one to aspire for and the best long term investment. A sistem to grow into with time through the ff use of all my lenses now. Both M & R, old & new (at 24mp). I would even buy that 35 shift lens now blindfolded. Where do I pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Hi manolo, Take a look here why not modular like the S1?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
manolo Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share #22 Posted September 24, 2008 & the 21/1.4 M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #23 Posted September 25, 2008 With that simple or not so simple modular modification to the S2 prototype; they would have all the M & R, digital or film, professional or amateur users buying this camera; as well as all the new ones that are now interested as well. This would help this people be more assured of their investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_f Posted September 25, 2008 Share #24 Posted September 25, 2008 Manolo, I stand corrected. A post in this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/64295-mr-kaufmann-s2-price-production-start.html shows that Leica CEO Kaufmann mentioned an adapter to use R-lenses on the S2, and furthermore that the S2 would be capable of different format coverages (including presumably 24x36mm). Well done Leica ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 25, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 25, 2008 With that simple or not so simple modular modification to the S2 prototype; they would have all the M & R, digital or film, professional or amateur users buying this camera; as well as all the new ones that are now interested as well. This would help this people be more assured of their investment. Manolo, You are so strongly supporting your point of "modularizing" S2 that I start to love your idea... ... you ought to be a politician... : ok it would cost a lot and I probably will never buy into... but a S2 based camera with mirror box dismountable, M+R proper adapters, maybe an EVF assembly to be mounted instead of Mirror+Prism (no other way to deal with M lenses, I suppose...unless they reinvent the add-on rangefinders for Leica I... ), everything with the proper connections... wow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #26 Posted September 25, 2008 Manolo, You are so strongly supporting your point of "modularizing" S2 that I start to love your idea... ... you ought to be a politician... : a S2 based camera with mirror box dismountable, M+R proper adapters, maybe an EVF assembly to be mounted instead of Mirror+Prism (no other way to deal with M lenses, I suppose...unless they reinvent the add-on rangefinders for Leica I... ), everything with the proper connections... wow... Add-on rangefinder sounds good but the EVF could be useful; you could even have a rf for long lenses a la M3 and one for the wa's. birdman would have his R vf of his choice with even a larger area to look through than the R ff crop. (a la DMR that he is used to) "wow" is the word I would use also. In the link in my first post you can see the S1 with the 3 lens mounts R,M & mf (I would put the new S 35 shift-tilt in the new brochure for this S2 open format). In the middle picture with the M lens I could imagine that add-on rangefinder might not de too difficult. Of course; we would later need rangefinder S lenses also. MS lenses? This system would really revolutionize the industry. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/63661-why-not-modular-like-the-s1/?do=findComment&comment=665686'>More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #27 Posted September 25, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) & Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/63661-why-not-modular-like-the-s1/?do=findComment&comment=665746'>More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #28 Posted September 25, 2008 Manolo, I stand corrected. A post in this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/64295-mr-kaufmann-s2-price-production-start.html shows that Leica CEO Kaufmann mentioned an adapter to use R-lenses on the S2, and furthermore that the S2 would be capable of different format coverages (including presumably 24x36mm). Well done Leica ! I was disappointed by this: "Interesting as that David Farkas was told by Leica execs during S2 hands-on that-NO R adapter (was a miscommunication). Sounds like a message needs to be straightened out." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
etrigan63 Posted September 25, 2008 Share #29 Posted September 25, 2008 Another thing the S-System seems to have triggered is a price drop in MF digital equipment. Phase One recently offered their Phase One 645 (a rebadged Mamiya 645 AFD III) for free with the purchase of a P45+ back. Hasselblad has made the special intro price to the H3D-II system ($17,995 for H3D-II body, 80mm lens, 31Mp DB) the standard price. Leaf and Sinar will probably be following suit. This bodes well for advanced amateurs with professional aspirations. Hopefully Leica is keeping an eye on these events and will price accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted September 25, 2008 Share #30 Posted September 25, 2008 This is what will hopefully be a great move for Leica. Two of my clients have already given tentative orders or the S2 (contingent of course on final pricing)...both of who are location industiral/commercial shooters. I think Leica has thought this out very well manalo...a cumbersome modular camera is not what these guys wanted...they both have Leaf/Hassy systems that are modular. And Leica is realizing that they can't financially survive just by keeping the well healed amateur happy. This camera, if successful, is the only hope that some day you may get what you're wishing for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted September 25, 2008 Share #31 Posted September 25, 2008 I am definitely with Bob here -- there have been modular cameras before -- the best example is the Sinar M. I would be surprised if they sold 100 of them. They were INSANELY expensive -- precision engineering and modularity lead to very very high costs. There is not much point either -- to make it modular, it would likely cost more than having the two cameras separately. It is cheaper just to have an M8 to shoot M lenses and an S2 to shoot S lenses. It would be nice in theory, but there are simply too many real world disadvantages to the setup -- most importantly, cost, bulk and system integration. A dedicated S2 that shoots only its own lenses will be cheaper, smaller, lighter, easier to use and better integrated. It's also highly doubtful that they could keep it water sealed if they made it modular. Anyway, this is from a DMR user too...trust me, there are downsides to modularity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #32 Posted September 25, 2008 Carlos, I would consider myself an "advanced amateurs with professional aspirations" but the profession is changing so how you comertialize your work is an open book. I think also that Leica thought of it more than I think. (if this makes sense) but the potential to attract the current M and R also with just making it modular and keeping the exact portability etc... is just too good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #33 Posted September 25, 2008 Stuart, for me that have both M & R lenses, it would make the difference from being able to buy into the S slowly or never being able to do it at all. If they are three cameras just the thought of having to upgrade my M8 and DMR to this new ff versions makes my stomach hurt but if I invest in this "S module", I know I could have it for the next 5 years without having the need for something better since I would just buy 2 S lenses for a 37mp image. And I would have the ff camera for both M & R now. But this is just my case, the thing is that this way just would make it more attractive to more people and with more people the product is stronger and the stronger the product the more people that buy it etc.... La unión hace la fuerza If they could make it modular without Bob loosing his two MF clients they would have a much more secure product and they don't have to have any of the M & R modular parts right away. They could have just the same basic product that they have now if they could just separate it in two and say that the parts would come by eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share #34 Posted September 25, 2008 We really don't know what Leica is capable of. A month ago if you would say that they would bring out a 21 & 24 M summiluxes you would be thrown tho the crocodiles for blasphemy but now they even have an S new system with 9 lenses all "home made". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share #35 Posted September 26, 2008 ok so if "modular" is not for the S2 at this time, then why not an R & M modular (like the S1)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted September 26, 2008 Share #36 Posted September 26, 2008 They are just too different. M lenses are designed to be 28.8mm from the film plane, Leica R lenses are designed to be 47mm from the film plane. Either you have to design a removable mirror box that is 18.2mm thick (too thin for 35mm), or you have to find some way to insert the mirror box inside the camera in order to change from M to R lenses. The other option is to have full time live view and an EVF. The technical challenges are huge, and the existing user base is tiny -- it just does not make economic or engineering sense. It would cost a fortune and probably fail to do the job as well as real thing. There is a reason that the visoflex went out of style -- real SLR's do the job much much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxlim Posted September 26, 2008 Share #37 Posted September 26, 2008 1. Leica says they based the S2 on a whole lot of surveying of pro photographers. Presumably the pros preferred "compact" to "modular". 2. The S is a whole system - there will eventually be other bodies in it - a modular one may turn up, lower/higher pixel ones may turn up. It's interesting that Leica gets hassled for not going after new users - and then when they produce a whole new product line FOR new users (based on asking them what they want) they get hassled for not feeding the established customer base (or at least the R base)instead. Agreed. Supermodular will not sell leica lenses and accessories, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share #38 Posted September 26, 2008 Stuart, if you use the hole 47 mm before the sensor to have ether a mirror-prism or an M viewfinder-mount; it could work. They would only have to separate the electronics from the M mechanics. When only film, this was not worth it but in digital times it makes a lot of sense to me. this way the R system would not be left alone but it would be a part of the same sensor size format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted September 30, 2008 Share #39 Posted September 30, 2008 We live in a digital world for many years now. Everything you ask for does not work for very simple reasons. Results will be muss less than optimum and the digital world is more than adapting lenses in front of sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share #40 Posted September 30, 2008 Zapp, the 4/3 system just brought a rangefinder like version (with live view) that uses the reflex lenses with an extension. The M8 is the first Leica digital rangefinder and second to the Epson. There is no reason why there could be: 1- a "back" with shutter (M8.2's up to 1/4000), sensor (based on the S2 sensor 24mp ff), battery and processor (maestro). 2- viewfinder (mirror box in case of reflex) 3- lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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