arthury Posted September 24, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am highly skeptical about the AF abilities of the S2. Even Canon and Nikon are struggling to get this component implemented in perfection, how could Leica, who is new to this technology, be any where near? We'll have to see the production models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Hi arthury, Take a look here AutoFocus. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
clw Posted September 24, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 24, 2008 Didn't Leica pretty much invent auto focus? I thought I read that they did, but then sold the technology to Minolta as they thought their customers wouldn't want it? Correct me if I'm wrong. please... I would say think that the S2 might focus slower than a C or N as it's a different, larger beast. Certainly, it's not going to be an 8 frames a second machine gun either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike prevette Posted September 24, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 24, 2008 CLW even if that was true, that was a very, very, very long time ago. C and N have been making strides in it even recently, so I have to second the first posters apprehension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted September 24, 2008 Share #4 Posted September 24, 2008 Leica invented AF and introduced it at Photokina in 1976! Then, one of the executives at the time said, "I think our customers know how to focus by themselves." and sold the patent to Minolta. I just tried the S2 earlier today and it works. Check out the blog for more details of my hands-on time with the S2. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted September 24, 2008 Share #5 Posted September 24, 2008 Leica invented AF and introduced it at Photokina in 1976! Then, one of the executives at the time said, "I think our customers know how to focus by themselves." and sold the patent to Minolta. Leica was right. Autofocus is the main reason I nixed the idea of a DSLR and got into Leica M film cameras. Nikon's loss was Leica's gain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted September 24, 2008 Share #6 Posted September 24, 2008 Leica was right. Autofocus is the main reason I nixed the idea of a DSLR and got into Leica M film cameras. Nikon's loss was Leica's gain. Great minds think alike, that's exactly why I'm STILL interested in a Leica TOO. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted September 24, 2008 Share #7 Posted September 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Even Canon and Nikon are struggling to get this component implemented in perfection I dont think they are struggling to get AF to work at all. They may well be struggling with some of their current very complicated multi sensor / multi mode versions, but simpler versions have been very usable for years. The baying of the 'I need 10fps, perfectly clean iso zillion and AF that thinks for me and faster than me' crowd is what gives C and N their problems, or rather trying to pander to that crowd. Leica never has, and this system doesnt change that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #8 Posted September 24, 2008 I am highly skeptical about the AF abilities of the S2. Wouldn't it be best to wait until the camera is released? All the the lenses have manual override if you don't want to use AF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted September 24, 2008 Share #9 Posted September 24, 2008 I could test the autofocus on the S2 yesterday as well as manual, of course. There is only one AF spot in the centre. The AF was not as fast as in the C or N flagships, but the camera I had in my hands is still a recently assembled prototype, so we can be sure that some development will occur till the S2 will be released next sommer. Moreover, the AF lenses do not use the ultrasonic drives because they are too heavy - they are build from metal and not plastics... Regards, Peter. P.S.: Manual focusing was very smooth - a perfect Leica feeling. And no switch between MF and AF necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 24, 2008 Share #10 Posted September 24, 2008 Leica invented AF and introduced it at Photokina in 1976! Then, one of the executives at the time said, "I think our customers know how to focus by themselves." and sold the patent to Minolta. I just tried the S2 earlier today and it works. Check out the blog for more details of my hands-on time with the S2. David the fair question is how fast (and accurate, we shall see..) is the S2 autofocus compared to the Hasselblad H series? i just read your blog entry on the S2 and I got the impression that it is necessary to go into the menu to do exposure comensation or iso change. or does it work by pressing a customized button AND turning the mode dial? does the viewfinder display show iso and +/- comp? why not two dials, as nikon and hasselblad do it? the m8 was/is an ergonomical disaster, i was hoping for the better... peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted September 24, 2008 Share #11 Posted September 24, 2008 the m8 was/is an ergonomical disaster Your point of view. For me, it can be better but yet, I would not change it for another camera except the DMR. Nikon DSLR are an ergonomical disaster for me and Canon barely usable... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted September 24, 2008 Share #12 Posted September 24, 2008 the AF lenses do not use the ultrasonic drives because they are too heavy - they are build from metal and not plastics...QUOTE] Peter, I dont know if your translating 'heavy' to mean a lot of weight, or to mean difficult, the materials used are pretty irrevevant IMHO. Of my nikon lenses the (metal) 300/2.8 is one of the fastest focussing, and the (all plastic) 18-55 is one of the slowest, they both use Nikon's ultrasonic motors. More likely is that Leica have given manual focus feel a greater priority, and therefore there is too much friction for an ultrasonic motor, or, heaven forbid, ultrasonics would have been too expensive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted September 24, 2008 Share #13 Posted September 24, 2008 Yes, what I meant was a lot of weight... Maybe that also the option of manual focusing was a reason for not using ultrasonic motors. At least Mrs. Harbert told that weight was the main reason, and that they were not convinced that USMs could handle the weight of the lens. Regards, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 24, 2008 Share #14 Posted September 24, 2008 Your point of view. For me, it can be better but yet, I would not change it for another camera except the DMR. Nikon DSLR are an ergonomical disaster for me and Canon barely usable... did you really like to go into the menu to change iso, +/- ? hard to imagine. and the retro bottom plate? thank goodness they did not put this into the D2----))) peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted September 24, 2008 Share #15 Posted September 24, 2008 Canon and Nikon AF systems are designed for fast action, with many configurable AF points. Leica, I assume, has prioritized focus precision on a single AF point, for studio work. It is not the same AF system / purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted September 24, 2008 Share #16 Posted September 24, 2008 Canon and Nikon AF systems are designed for fast action, with many configurable AF points. Leica, I assume, has prioritized focus precision on a single AF point, for studio work. It is not the same AF system / purpose. this is an excuse, one-point AF is just under the acceptable level today for a newly designed DSLR. focus precision of nikon 51 point AF is excellent, sports,studio you name it (i do not know about canon, so i do not comment). i also have a hasselblad H2 which has only one AF sensor. yes, it is very accurate (and i suppose the leica AF chip/software is identical to that one...---))), but it feels like a stone age camera in comparism (do not get me wrong please, it produces wonderful files with the P45 or the A75)...it is high time that MF goes beyond that. unfortunately leica did not do this nor implement any visionary technological developments. just a german panzer (next time i recommend giugaro design instead of in-house cooking) with a lot of mpx. phase software and fujitsu electronics might save the day. the custom S2 lenses will certainly be nice, but too slow to beat the competition. i find the fotokina leica party mood hard to understand... still i might buy into the system unless canikon comes up with what we expect they will... peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted September 24, 2008 Share #17 Posted September 24, 2008 As with the DMR the problem with Leica is that they announce something and then tell us it will be a # month wait. By the time they do eventually release their product the competition has surpassed them technically. Pay attention, I said technically not necessarily factually. By the time the DMR came out 10.2 mp was almost obsolete. Is the DMR excellent with 10.2 mp? Yes, I own and use one all of the time. But the public perception is that 10.2 is BEHIND the times and therefore Leica loses out on new, less informed customers. Now they are saying that the R10 will be out in 2010. Heck, by then there may be all new sensor/memory technologies that will again leave Leica in the dust. I am happy that Leica is moving forward. I am happy that they are seemingly healthy. I am not happy that they continue this marketing strategy of announce and wait. Wasn't there a year delay of the original DMR availability? Frustration and excitement are tough emotions to exist in a parallel world of Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted September 25, 2008 Share #18 Posted September 25, 2008 I am highly skeptical about the AF abilities of the S2. Even Canon and Nikon are struggling to get this component implemented in perfection, how could Leica, who is new to this technology, be any where near? We'll have to see the production models. Not having seen the S2 AF in person nor tested it, I do belief that Leica got that right. It is a simple 1 point AF, so no fiddling around between different AF points etc, where the SW to handle this would have been a huge risk. They decided to go for 1 AF point - which I think is GREAT. In most cases I use also on my D3 with its 51 AF points just the center point. I hope they made this AF point sensitive enough, if this is the case then it should be NU problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted September 25, 2008 Share #19 Posted September 25, 2008 As with the DMR the problem with Leica is that they announce something and then tell us it will be a # month wait. By the time they do eventually release their product the competition has surpassed them technically. Pay attention, I said technically not necessarily factually. By the time the DMR came out 10.2 mp was almost obsolete. Is the DMR excellent with 10.2 mp? Yes, I own and use one all of the time. But the public perception is that 10.2 is BEHIND the times and therefore Leica loses out on new, less informed customers. Now they are saying that the R10 will be out in 2010. Heck, by then there may be all new sensor/memory technologies that will again leave Leica in the dust. I am happy that Leica is moving forward. I am happy that they are seemingly healthy. I am not happy that they continue this marketing strategy of announce and wait. Wasn't there a year delay of the original DMR availability? Frustration and excitement are tough emotions to exist in a parallel world of Leica. I must say I do really prefer they showed now their new camera and told us where they are going. The could develop this system from scratch in less than 2 years, I guess including product specification time, so the actual development time was even shorter. Now they need to fine tune, which should work as long as they do not have principal design failures. And I do belif in them, after I have now seen what they are capable to do. And now we also know what will happen to the R system, so in 2 years there will be the R10 body, I guess it will almost look like the S2 but be a significant piece smaller and support AF-R glass. And if we are lucky there will be also a VF M9 in 2010. All based on the same technology the have now for the S1. Lot of the design can be reused. What should change in the MF landscape in the next year? 80MP and FF 645? Well, this is not the area the S2 needs to compete with. It is aimed to be a tool for those who have enough MP with 37.5MP and who want a reasonable small and fast camera system instead of huge and heavy and double the MP. My only concern is that Leica will offer in the future a trade in program if then a S3 is offered in maybe 2012 or so. Or reduce pricing by then, as Hasselblad is doing it now. But this would definitely help to upgrade the system over the years to the latest and greatest in sensor technology and they could earn the real money from selling S2 glass. Time will tell. But for now and the next 2 years they should be safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laki Posted September 25, 2008 Share #20 Posted September 25, 2008 did you really like to go into the menu to change iso, +/- ? hard to imagine.peter but you are aware that you can also make exposure compensation without the "+/-"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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