stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #21 Posted September 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am to blame that I loaded a corrupted update file on my M8. Was it the card that was corrupt, or was it firmware you had hacked and were trying to load onto the M8? If it was hacked firmware then I think Leica were well within their rights to charge for the repair. If they had to re-flash, or replace, ROMs then they would have needed to disassemble the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here M8 and corrupted software . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted September 24, 2008 Share #22 Posted September 24, 2008 Was it the card that was corrupt, or was it firmware you had hacked and were trying to load onto the M8? If it was hacked firmware then I think Leica were well within their rights to charge for the repair. If they had to re-flash, or replace, ROMs then they would have needed to disassemble the camera. After reviewing his preveous posts on the subject, found in this thread (Posts 24 & 27). http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/61715-where-my-thread-2.html It seems it was because of a currupted card, so I am mistaken and do apologize to Hans and all other posters for my error. But if Leica does follow these forums then they knew what Hans was doing when the camera failed and I suppose voided his warranty. But only Leica could tell us that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share #23 Posted September 24, 2008 What it means is Hans made a mistake when adding or changing something in the firmware. When that badly, wrongly, coded firmware was loaded on the camera the update failed leavingthe camera dead. The camera did not know how to deal with the bad, wrong, code and could not continue.It has nothing to do with waiting 3 second. As far as I know all other failures, for whatever reason, from loading the correct, Leica written, firmware has been covered under warranty and that Leica could restore the camera. I have no idea how they restored them, there must be a way to write code, the correct code, to the camera to begin with. So I would suspect Leica has the tools (software) and hardware to reflash the ROM chip. But in Hans case the wrong code was written to the chip. That could of totally corrupted the chip and stop Leica from having any access to it, that is just speculation. There are a lot of speculations in your posting. First of all, Leica would not mention the 3 seconds waiting time as a possible cause, if they had other information. Your suggestion that Leica can restore a camera with special tools has proven to be wrong. If they could, they would do so and save themselves the long way of replacing boards and making adjustments, not preventing them to charge the same amount of money as they do now. Whether things have to be done under warranty or not plays no role. In my case it was my fault, but there are more reasons why the same thing could happen, like not waiting 3 seconds before starting, or by using a SD card that is not working properly, or by using a battery that is giving up during download, etc. The simple fact is that when the software on the M8 is corrupted for whatever reason, there is no other way than to swap boards because the microprocessor on the boards hangs and can no longer perform any instruction at all. The hanging of the microprocessor is visible by the red led burning continuously. There is really nothing damaged to the hardware, just the wrong software causes the machine to hang. Either replacing the flash memory chip, or activating a (Rom based) downloader by a hard reset of the processor could get the thing to life again, but none of both seems to be possible with the M8. This is exactly my reason for this thread. I see it as an omission, just like SJP mentioned in his reply, that this hard reset function is not available, which leads to unnecessary costs and annoyance. I do not have to replace boards in my Miele washing machine, my Nokia cell phone or my Asus PC when I Flash something that is corrupted, so I see absolutely no technical reason why Leica has not included this in their software. Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 24, 2008 Share #24 Posted September 24, 2008 I do not have to replace boards in my Miele washing machine, my Nokia cell phone or my Asus PC when I Flash something that is corrupted, so I see absolutely no technical reason why Leica has not included this in their software. Thanks for your extensive clarification of the dismal state of affairs - the person that designed (or failed to design) a hard reset in the M8 processor/firmware system did a disservice to all of us, including Leica. It effectively means that if the systems hangs up for whatever reason (and computers do that, as we all know) the only option is to send it in for service. Apparently in some cases it actually involves replacing the hardware. This is just plain stupid design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 24, 2008 Lots of devices stress that it's important not to switch off the device while the firmware is being updated as this can render the device useless and it will need to be sent to a service centre. It's not just Leica, from memory the same warning is issued when updating the firmware on Canon DSLRs. If Hans was trying to update the camera with hacked firmware - and he hasn't denied this - then anything could have happened to the internals of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 24, 2008 Share #26 Posted September 24, 2008 What you want to design into such a system is a jumper or keypress combination that causes the processor to reboot using a hardwired skeleton code instead of the flash memory. That should then give you a very basic state of the processor that alows you to overwrite the flash memory and restore the operating system to its virgin state. Probably would only cost one dollar in additional components. All PC mainboards have such an option. Ipods, do as well, and indeed washing machines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #27 Posted September 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) That should then give you a very basic state of the processor that alows you to overwrite the flash memory and restore the operating system to its virgin state. Probably would only cost one dollar in additional components. All PC mainboards have such an option. Ipods, do as well, and indeed washing machines. However, Leica state that when installing v2.0 it's not possible to revert to an earlier version of the firmware, so even if a previous version of the firmware was held in flash it's perfectly possible that it would have been of no use if the attempted load of v2.0 had aborted part way through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted September 24, 2008 Share #28 Posted September 24, 2008 Notwendige Arbeiten 450,92Eingangsprüfung elektronisches Bauteil instandsetzen Sensorlage justieren Verschlußzeiten regulieren Belichtungsmesser justieren E-Messer justieren E-Messer reinigen Gesamtabstimmung Notwendige Materialien Leiterplatte 196,03 Belederung 10,36 Prüf/Logistikkosten 40,00 Mehrwertsteuer 19,0 % _______________________ Endbetrag in EUR 829,80 Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what I find most interesting in Leica's cost estimate is this: "Belederung 10,36" I will remind them of this when I order an update for my M8 including the new leatherette covering for which they have been said to charge 330,00 € ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted September 24, 2008 Share #29 Posted September 24, 2008 Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what I find most interesting in Leica's cost estimate is this:"Belederung 10,36" I will remind them of this when I order an update for my M8 including the new leatherette covering for which they have been said to charge 330,00 € ... But that's just the money for the materiel, remain 320 € for arbeitszeit. It took myself less than 1/2 hour to change the leather on a MP, so I guess they may have some high class advocates that they charge 640 € an hour for doing the job... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariston Posted September 24, 2008 Share #30 Posted September 24, 2008 Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what I find most interesting in Leica's cost estimate is this:"Belederung 10,36" I will remind them of this when I order an update for my M8 including the new leatherette covering for which they have been said to charge 330,00 € ... If you are referring to the new vulcanite covering, Leica have quoted me €180 to recover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #31 Posted September 24, 2008 I will remind them of this when I order an update for my M8 including the new leatherette covering for which they have been said to charge 330,00 € ... It's 330 USD, not Euros... Leica Camera AG - Starting October 1, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 24, 2008 Share #32 Posted September 24, 2008 180 Euro. I don't think that is 330$ yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 24, 2008 Share #33 Posted September 24, 2008 180 Euros = $265 according to the online convertor I used. If that is correct it's nice to see something costing less in Europe than the States for a change <grin>. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share #34 Posted September 30, 2008 I love Leica, Since they have to take almost the complete camera apart to change the board with the flash memory, I asked them what the extra charge would be to include the new shutter in the repair. And guess what, they will change to the new silent shutter with no extra charge !!. . Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 30, 2008 Share #35 Posted September 30, 2008 I love Leica, Since they have to take almost the complete camera apart to change the board with the flash memory, I asked them what the extra charge would be to include the new shutter in the repair. And guess what, they will change to the new silent shutter with no extra charge !!. . Hans This can't be right! Another member of this forum just had a shutter failure and when HE asked Leica to replace the bad/failed shutter with the NEW upgraded model they charged him the FULL upgrade price, IE NO break on the price even though they saved the cost of the old shutter as the camera was still in warranty and they had to take it apart and put it back together anyway to change out the bad/failed shutter. Which I find to be totally one sided, on Leica's side. Charge a user the full price for something they had to do anyway for nothing. Surely you mean they are putting the new shutter in for the current upgrade cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.