Zeiss Ikon questions - any one own an Ikon?

[Guest darkstar2004]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Okay, I suppose the customer forum is the place for this thread, so here goes.

 

I'm wondering if any forum members own the Zeiss Ikon camera body and what you think of it. Has it been reliable? How about the hinged back film loading vs. the Leica M baseplate loading? Have you had any problems/issues with the hinged back? What has your experience been with the Ikon? Would you recommend it to a friend?

 

I am looking around for a backup body for my MP and am thinking of either a Zeiss Ikon (new) or a clean, used M6 body; they are more or less similar in price and both seem to be a much better cameras than the Voightlander bodies that will accept the Leica M lenses.

 

Any information that you august ladies and gents can pass along will be greatly appreciated.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[kdemas]

I have used one. Nice finder but I prefer my M7 by a large margin (I know it's more expensive, but I also prefer my M5 by quite a bit as well). This is probably something best suited for a forum like rangefinderforum where there are some ZI users that can give you their impressions.

 

Kent

[SteveYork]

The Zeiss Ikon is nice. A lot of bang for the buck. The viewfinder is very bright and you can see more of the frame lines. If you wear glasses, then this may be important. The rangefinder patch, however, is not as good as a Leica. The rangefinder patch on a Leica snaps together real crisply. The same cannot be said for the ZI.

[derek_stanton]

I have one, after having owned an M7 on two separate occasions. I prefer using the Ikon. The viewfinder is better. It's not as 'brick-like,' but with any lens attached, it feels like a solid camera, and i don't get the feeling that it's unnecessarily dense. I like the way the wind lever is positioned so that when it's not set against the body, i can shoot and wind very quickly without moving my eye from the viewfinder. I prefer the frameline set over the M7's .85 or .72 set.... I prefer the loading system - the Ms seem primitive, not quaint in that regard. I like the 1/2000 top shutter speed. I prefer the exposure compensation and ISO setting systems....

 

The M7's advantage? Sturdier build. But, the Ms are built better than i need them to be, and with the price of a Leica, i'd never take advantage of the sturdiness, as i'd feel compelled to baby it.

 

If you are happy with your M7, though, i can imagine it would make more sense to own a more similar backup camera. But, personally, i would never own an M6. I use AE most of the time, and hate the M6's kindergarten < • > arrow metering display.

 

Pursuant to Steve's remarks, i find the Ikon's rangefinder patch to be superior, as well. My M7s always seemed to flare out, even in the 'upgraded' version. I never have that problem with the Ikon. Well, i did when i first picked it up, before i bought it. But, after two minutes, i know where my eye is supposed to be, and that's that.

[dpattinson]

The finder is nice on the ZI, you might also consider the Konica Hexar RF if you can find a nice one. The top speed of 1/4000 is very nice if you like to shoot fast lenses.

[JHAG]

The Zeiss Ikon is nice. A lot of bang for the buck. The viewfinder is very bright and you can see more of the frame lines. If you wear glasses, then this may be important. The rangefinder patch, however, is not as good as a Leica. The rangefinder patch on a Leica snaps together real crisply. The same cannot be said for the ZI.

 

I concur. The VF is extraordinary bright and wide, but the RF patch is messy — you easily lose it if your eye is not spot on (meaning centered, a bit up).

I used it mainly with my 21 Elmarit, and the large VF is a breeze with such a wide angle.

[gesper]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

How loud is the shutter relative to Leicas?

[JHAG]

How loud is the shutter relative to Leicas?

 

I have an FM3a too. I'd say the shutter is a bit more restrained, dampen (signal is shorter) than the Nikon's.

I don't know the price of the Zeiss, as for today. I paid it new 750 €.

[martinb]

I have the Ikon and it's a very nice camera! I like the faster speed 1/2000 and faster flash sync 1/125. The finder is also amazing to look in to, but for focusing I prefer Leica. Many prefer the film loading, but having used Leica it was more difficult for me in the beginning. On the other hand I've never misloaded the Ikon and that has happened with Leica.

It's a very good camera and it just shows that there's room for improvement on film Leicas. I'd like to see faster speeds 1/4000 to 1/8000 and 1/250 flash sync. If it can be done with the M8 why not in a film camera? And yes, keep the MP as it is, but an M7.2 would be nice.

[Double Negative]

I have one (bought new, in black) and love it. The VF is very bright and has framelines for 28/85, 35 and 50. The RF patch is a little squirrely but not too bad as you get used to it. The controls aren't as smooth as on a Leica - something I wish Zeiss had made a little more effort on. But otherwise, a very nice camera for the money.

[guywalder]

How loud is the shutter relative to Leicas?

 

loud enough to be the 1 reason I didnt buy an Ikon.

 

I wear glasses and the VF on the Ikon is so much easier to see through, and with labelled frame lines...

But my 'instore' assessment was that the shutter was way too laud, similar to a Voightänder in fact.

 

Oh for a camera with the M7's shutter, the Ikon's VF (ok, maybe the Leica rangefinder patch, didnt get as far as evaulating that), available in black at a reasonable price!

[petercs]

Okay, I suppose the customer forum is the place for this thread, so here goes.

 

I'm wondering if any forum members own the Zeiss Ikon camera body and what you think of it. Has it been reliable? How about the hinged back film loading vs. the Leica M baseplate loading? Have you had any problems/issues with the hinged back? What has your experience been with the Ikon? Would you recommend it to a friend?

 

I am looking around for a backup body for my MP and am thinking of either a Zeiss Ikon (new) or a clean, used M6 body; they are more or less similar in price and both seem to be a much better cameras than the Voightlander bodies that will accept the Leica M lenses.

 

Any information that you august ladies and gents can pass along will be greatly appreciated.

 

I recently switched from a ZI to the M7. I don't look back. The ZI has some advantages regarding easy of use (good finder, lighter body, easy exposure correction ...) but in general was not robust enough for me. It has seen heavy use (climbing, trekking), so the lugs for the straps where easily worn (soft material). Finally some screws of the uppper body became loose.

 

I have used the M7 in a similar way (see my 2008 shots on Homepage Spaeth). It is in better shape so far. Film loading and general handling was better with the ZI, though ...

 

Best Regards, Peter

[lars_bergquist]

[ ... ] If you are happy with your M7, though, i can imagine it would make more sense to own a more similar backup camera. But, personally, i would never own an M6. I use AE most of the time, and hate the M6's kindergarten < • > arrow metering display....

 

Manual metering 'kindergarten'? To me, it has always been the auto exposure that is 'kindergarten stuff'. Manual is for photographers who think. I use it most of the time with my M8—running manually is a lot faster than trying to outwit little electronic imps that have no idea of what I want, or even what's in front of the lens.

 

Plus-minus compensation is (a) dead slow, and ( pure guesswork. And the exposure lock comes unstuck as soon as you have taken the first picture, making it useless for covering a scene with several frames—classical 35mm technique. My old Olympus OM-4 could at least lock the exposure in until I deliberately unlocked it. Cannot understand why the M8 has an exposure lock like on a cheap snapshot camera.

 

I also carry a Gossen hand meter, for incident light work. I presume you would call that positively infantile ...

 

The old man from the Age of Selenium Meters ... at best

[peter_n]

I am looking around for a backup body for my MP and am thinking of either a Zeiss Ikon (new) or a clean, used M6 body; they are more or less similar in price and both seem to be a much better cameras than the Voightlander bodies that will accept the Leica M lenses.

I used a Voigtlander R4 for over a year and it is a very practical and (so far) unique solution for the use of super-wide lenses. I was very impressed with it. Whether the ZI is a "much better" camera I'm not so sure, I have briefly used one and like the VF a lot, but that's about it. Do you want/need AE? If so get the ZI, if not get the M6. The M6 will also give you a lower cost of ownership if you are looking at that side of it.

[derek_stanton]

Manual metering 'kindergarten'? To me, it has always been the auto exposure that is 'kindergarten stuff'. Manual is for photographers who think. I use it most of the time with my M8—running manually is a lot faster than trying to outwit little electronic imps that have no idea of what I want, or even what's in front of the lens.

 

Plus-minus compensation is (a) dead slow, and ( pure guesswork. And the exposure lock comes unstuck as soon as you have taken the first picture, making it useless for covering a scene with several frames—classical 35mm technique. My old Olympus OM-4 could at least lock the exposure in until I deliberately unlocked it. Cannot understand why the M8 has an exposure lock like on a cheap snapshot camera.

 

I also carry a Gossen hand meter, for incident light work. I presume you would call that positively infantile ...

 

The old man from the Age of Selenium Meters ... at best

 

I didn't say "manual metering is kindergarten stuff." I'm saying the M6's scheme of indicating metering with two arrows is silly. Not so silly that it prevents image making for those who adopt it, but it's not for me. You turn one knob or the other until the arrows indicate 'proper' exposure? Without showing you how many steps away you are, or what the actual selection is.... Whatever.

 

I would also disagree that using AE somehow indicates you're not thinking. It actually works the same way as manual metering. You show the sensor what to meter, and that's the setting you use. How is that different from using a Gossen? Transferring data from one device to another doesn't demonstrate any particular skill for me. I've done that with other (medium format) cameras, and i get no additional satisfaction from those images.

 

What are the "little electronic imps" you speak of? Are they somehow different in an M7/Ikon meter than in a Gossen? Either way, you need to know what to show the imp. Carrying a separate imp seems a bit like a conflict of interest when shooting with a rangefinder. If i want to carry more equipment, i'll shoot with a larger, more versatile and precise camera, possibly with a larger negative....

 

I agree that exposure compensation is "guesswork" and slow. I don't use either. I mentioned, though, that the Ikon's system is better than the M7's because some people do use those functions, and the OP was asking for a comparison.

 

It's unfortunate that you were so insulted by my remarks. But, if you re-read them, you'll see they were directed at a piece of hardware, and not at you. Calling a metering system "silly/infantile/whatever" is a bit different from using those words to describe people who use it. If i said the 35mm Summilux was soft, would you post pictures of your sixpack and biceps to refute the statement?

[JHAG]

You turn one knob or the other until the arrows indicate 'proper' exposure? Without showing you how many steps away you are, or what the actual selection is.... Whatever.

 

 

 

Well, you just count the increments, don't you ? I do.

[lars_bergquist]

Look, you can see directly if you are one f-stop below, 1/2 stop below, spot on +/– 1/2, 1/2 over, 1 stop over ... if you would only take the trouble to read the manual. And as has been pointed out, if you need more than 1 stop correction, just count the clicks. Why not also demand a rangefinder that told you in blazing red numerals, "1meter front, 0.9meter front, 0.8meter front ..."

 

The old man from the Age Before LEDs. Holy shit, we gazed at moving needles! Positively paleozoic!

[JHAG]

And as has been pointed out, if you need more than 1 stop correction, just count the clicks.

 

Seems obvious to me, too.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest darkstar2004]

I used a Voigtlander R4 for over a year and it is a very practical and (so far) unique solution for the use of super-wide lenses. I was very impressed with it. Whether the ZI is a "much better" camera I'm not so sure, I have briefly used one and like the VF a lot, but that's about it. Do you want/need AE? If so get the ZI, if not get the M6. The M6 will also give you a lower cost of ownership if you are looking at that side of it.

 

I think I'm leaning toward a clean, used M6. Maybe even an M2 or M3, just something to have as a backup body in case something were to happen to the MP when on a long trip.

[derek_stanton]

Look, you can see directly if you are one f-stop below, 1/2 stop below, spot on +/– 1/2, 1/2 over, 1 stop over ... if you would only take the trouble to read the manual. And as has been pointed out, if you need more than 1 stop correction, just count the clicks. Why not also demand a rangefinder that told you in blazing red numerals, "1meter front, 0.9meter front, 0.8meter front ..."

 

The old man from the Age Before LEDs. Holy shit, we gazed at moving needles! Positively paleozoic!

 

Count the clicks. 1-2-3-4.... Yeah, that does sound like kindergarten stuff.

 

Focusing with numerical distance instructions? Pretty poor comparison. I don't often scale focus either. Focusing with a rangefinder or SLR is still a visual matter.

 

"Read the manual." I also don't often read manuals for products i don't own. That's not one of my hobbies.

 

Whatever. Y'all are very sensitive about your cameras. Moreso, even, than the idiots on dpreview, in the Nikon versus Canon flamewars. I criticized the metering system. Get over it. Enjoy whatever you enjoy, but don't pretend it's the 'best' system, just because it happens to be what you're used to. Do you think anyone would tolerate "counting clicks" in the S2?