marknorton Posted August 17, 2008 Share #21 Posted August 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought Leica is manufacturing also in Portugal (to quite a degree). Not necessarily a location associated with "off-shoring", but neither is Japan, where Zeiss (Cosina) manufactures most of its lenses, since Japanese labour costs are not necessarily lower than the Portugese ones. I think it is evident, why Portugal was chosen as a location many years ago. However, lean processes and economies of scale are more relevant than direct labour costs to succeed in manufacturing. I've always been surprised at the choice of Portugal - a decision taken decades ago when things were different - as a manufacturing base. Portugal hardly has a reputation for making anything and if Leica wanted to off-shore, China would be a better choice. Spichtig in an annual report a few years ago said that Leica Portugal had to sink or swim and find its own work. Even in these days of the all-smothering EU, I expect labour costs in Portugal are less than in Germany but I do wonder whether doggedly sticking with Portugal makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 17, 2008 Posted August 17, 2008 Hi marknorton, Take a look here Canon Rumour. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
caparobertsan Posted August 17, 2008 Share #22 Posted August 17, 2008 Actually, Leica should make lenses for pentax as they are as dead as Leica. Help them and they will also help Leica! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 17, 2008 Share #23 Posted August 17, 2008 Would be more clever than the MF project for sure but i wonder what could Canon gain in a deal like that. Agree... I do not find a reason for Canon to enter this kind of business... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted August 17, 2008 Share #24 Posted August 17, 2008 Agree... I do not find a reason for Canon to enter this kind of business... The ability to counter a Nikon - Zeiss prime combo offer. A player like Canon can not afford to leave a market niche to its fiercest competitor, no matter how small it might be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 17, 2008 Share #25 Posted August 17, 2008 A player like Canon can not afford to leave a market niche to its fiercest competitor Canon wants to sell Canon lenses. If Leica built lenses for the EOS system, then either these lenses would be perceived as superior to Canon’s own offerings, or the other way round. In the first case, this move wouldn’t be in Canon’s best interest, and in the latter case, it wouldn’t be in Leica’s best interest. There is no way both could win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted August 17, 2008 Share #26 Posted August 17, 2008 Canon wants to sell Canon lenses. If Leica built lenses for the EOS system, then either these lenses would be perceived as superior to Canon’s own offerings, or the other way round. In the first case, this move wouldn’t be in Canon’s best interest, and in the latter case, it wouldn’t be in Leica’s best interest. There is no way both could win. I'm not sure I can follow your logic. Isn't the general perception that Leica glass is superior to Canon's? Why would otherwise people go to length and mount R lenses on Eos cameras by fiddling around with adpaters? So why not doing the logic next step and offer Leica primes with Canon mount. Who said that Canon could not economically (royalty) benefit from such cooperation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparobertsan Posted August 18, 2008 Share #27 Posted August 18, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure I can follow your logic. Isn't the general perception that Leica glass is superior to Canon's? Why would otherwise people go to length and mount R lenses on Eos cameras by fiddling around with adpaters? So why not doing the logic next step and offer Leica primes with Canon mount. Who said that Canon could not economically (royalty) benefit from such cooperation? Actually R user don`t have no choice but use canon Body. It is like when R-d1 came out many Muser bought it. But Leica can ask Canon to make body for them. If Canon want Leica name on their eos lenses, it will be like panasonic. Canon will built it and Leica will inspect it then if it is approved they will put leica name. Vario elmarit EF 14-55! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikau Posted August 18, 2008 Share #28 Posted August 18, 2008 As someone who uses Leica R lenses on a Canon body I'd be delighted if a rebadged version with the Leica mount came out. I am very satisfied with the Canon (but I'm also happy with my M8 and have had no problems with it - it's now 18 months old). I find my Leica R lenses give noticeably better results than even Canon's comparable L-series lenses, particularly at wide apertures. I've pretty much given up on an R10 developed by Leica so, yes, bring on a rebadged Canon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted August 18, 2008 Share #29 Posted August 18, 2008 Over at drp or whatever it was there is a rumour that Leica are considering rebanding Canons for their DSLR range ....that would really get the anti boys in a twist. It would be quite a episode watching the mental wriggle come gymnastics Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahah! Aaaaaaaahahahahahah! Aaaaaaaaahahahahahah! Oh stop, yer killin' me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 18, 2008 Share #30 Posted August 18, 2008 I thought Leica is manufacturing also in Portugal (to quite a degree). M8s are made in Portugal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 18, 2008 Share #31 Posted August 18, 2008 I'm not sure I can follow your logic. Isn't the general perception that Leica glass is superior to Canon's? Sure. So you think it would make sense for Canon to license the EF mount to Leica and/or Zeiss? Which would amount to saying, sorry, we cannot make lenses like Leica’s or Zeiss’, so now we’ve opened a hassle-free way of using Leica or Zeiss glass with our DSLRs. Canon is proud of their lenses, too, and selling EF lenses is a major source of revenue. When photographers owning Leica R glass get an EOS body as an alternative to Leica’s R9/DMR combo, that’s fine as far as Canon is concerned, but deliberately opening their system for Leica and Zeiss is not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted August 18, 2008 Share #32 Posted August 18, 2008 There are only two x's in "Fxxk"! That depends how long you want it to take! Whatever happened to the rumour of a few months ago that Nikon were developing a digital rangefinder and may buy Leica!!?? Oh, and there are quite a few German owned companies manufacturing in Portugal. In fact before retiring I worked for such a company. It has been a favoured country for our Teutonic cousins since WW2. Logistics are good from Germany and key managers and workers are easily persuaded to live in what is a very pleasant climate and country where the labour costs are much lower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted August 18, 2008 Share #33 Posted August 18, 2008 Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahah! Aaaaaaaahahahahahah! Aaaaaaaaahahahahahah! Oh stop, yer killin' me! :D :D I can hear the pennies dropping. We need more smilie allocation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekimel Posted August 18, 2008 Share #34 Posted August 18, 2008 As someone who uses Leica R lenses on a Canon body I'd be delighted if a rebadged version with the Leica mount came out. That, to me, makes more sense for Leica than, say, slapping an EOS mount on R lenses. But given the MF nature of R lenses, hopefully Canon would do what Nikon did in its D200 (and up) cameras, allowing you to designate the MF lens so it's not stop-down metering, as it is with the adapters (at least the adapters I use for my two R lenses on an Olympus). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted August 18, 2008 Share #35 Posted August 18, 2008 The new Leica Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted August 18, 2008 Share #36 Posted August 18, 2008 i wonder what could Canon gain in a deal like that. Excellent wide angles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted August 18, 2008 Share #37 Posted August 18, 2008 For the DMR user, a re-badged Canon would not represent an upgrade. IMHO, internet rumors aren't worth the electrons they're written with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 18, 2008 Share #38 Posted August 18, 2008 For the DMR user, a re-badged Canon would not represent an upgrade. IMHO, internet rumors aren't worth the electrons they're written with. Summing up, the new DSLR from Leica will obviously be a re-badged Canon-Bronica-Sinar. You may call me crazy, but isn’t there a remote possibility that it might turn out to be, of all things, a Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted August 18, 2008 Share #39 Posted August 18, 2008 Summing up, the new DSLR from Leica will obviously be a re-badged Canon-Bronica-Sinar. You may call me crazy, but isn’t there a remote possibility that it might turn out to be, of all things, a Leica? Of course it will (as you probably know, Michael:) ), and four weeks from today we'll hopefully have that confirmed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 18, 2008 Share #40 Posted August 18, 2008 They would play a risky game, focusing on producing lenses for other DSLR-makers. They would be a parasite, if they're successful, Canon/Nikon would do everything to destroy them (changing electronics, bayonett, new-patents, new marketing-campaigns for all-new, now-even-better lens-series...). Zeiss had many partnerships with many companies, they made some of the best lenses. What happened? Yashica failed - no bodies, no lenses to sell... Hasselbald switched to cheaper Fuji-lenses to make more profit... They only survived because photo-lenses are only a very small part of their business. They don't even use their own top-notch designs (-> Master Primes) and their own top-notch manufacturing-site (Oberkochen) for (nearly all) ZM/ZF-lenses. Why? Because it's risky to invest much money into this game. Leica would have to build their whole business around that "game"... Offshoring into low-wages-countries is extremely overrated, other aspects are much more important (infrastructure, qualification, long-term-investments, automatization, effiency), many German companies had to learn that the hard way (and many companies (or at least their quality) didn't survive. It's the same with the Japanese, both most successful competitors (Panasonic/Canon) focus on production in their home-country while companies like Olympus threw away their know-how, their long-time employees - paying a high-price in the future facing even cheaper Chinese competitiors with Olympus-know-how... With high-quality-standards like Leica it's even harder, it took them decades to establish German-quality in Canada and Portugal. I don't think it's clever for such a small company to pay for all the quality-control, communication, transportation... between two manufacturing sites, they already sold (now called) ELCAN. But they only produce components/accessoires (winders..) and small binoculars in portugal, most components are manufactured by german suppliers in Germany, just like the M8. Isn't it better to have another DSLR-choice besides Nikon/Canon? Professional, medium-format quality-philosophy in 35mm-systems? Great DNG-files with outstanding colour-rendition, dynamic range, no AA-filter? Do we need another "speed-camera", taking >5 nice JPGs a second? Photokina 2008 will be the first real step into that direction - all-major breakthroughs in resolution, noise etc. have been made (except for color interpolation) and using new Leica-lenses with a ~24MPixel-Kodak-CCD will be capable of a file quality never seen in 35mm-systems before. Do you rather want a 8k€-Canon with a red dot? @Bill The custom-designed image-processing makes Canon/Nikon so fast and the JPGs usable while reducing engergy-consumption. The Kodak/Dalsa-sensors are top-notch, you can read technical or look at tests for signal-to-noise-ratio, dynamic range and you will see what these sensors are capable of. The best (image-quality-wise) digital cameras use Kodak/Dalsa-MF-CCDs and both, the DMR/M8 have still one of the best image-quality you can get when processed properly. You want facts, proving that selling cheap-mass-production-products with a well-known high-quality brand damages the brand? I have none, but simply look at history, all once-great, now destroyed brands/companies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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