wparsonsgisnet Posted August 14, 2008 Share #1 Posted August 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just got an email from Jon Cone's site about the Epson 1400 special offer. This is the printer that Cone says enables his best piezography offering. I'm considering it. $200 for the printer (with free shipping and 2 $50 rebates), then the Cone stuff. I'm trying to do some b/w printing and wondering if I should try to go this route, or live with b/w on my 2400 with the other capabilities that are out there. Any one want to weigh in on this one? Thanks in advance and here's Cone's email: EPSON USA has the Stylus Photo 1400 printer on sale for only $199 including free shipping. This is the 1.5 picoliter six ink printer on which I developed the Special Edition of Piezography for. The combination of my newest black & white Piezography inkset and paper curves, and this particular Epson printer produces the finest quality Piezography print ever. The $100 off from Epson is an amazing incentive for you to consider adding this printer to your Piezography printmaking. The inkset I developed for it is only available for the 1400. The printer produces prints up to 13" wide. I will give you an additional incentive by including a $50 off coupon on the JonCone Studio Special Edition Piezography system for it. The system includes a new cartridge-less CIS system using dampers and tubing which feed from bottles. There are six shades of ink in 4 ounce bottles which should allow you to make at least 500-600 8.5" x 11" prints before any one bottle of ink runs out. We include manuals for using Piezography as well as unique Soft-Proofing profiles for you to preview your images from Photoshop. The prints will have crisp neutral highlights that meld slowly into a selenium tone with warm shadows. It is simply the most gorgeous system I have ever produced for black & white printmaking. So buy your EPSON printer from their online store and save $100: Epson Home Page - Epson Printers, Scanners, Projectors, Ink, Paper and More - Epson America, Inc. Then come and use this coupon code [ 1400K6 ] during confirmation at our online store when you purchase the Piezography K6 Special Edition System kit for your printer. Piezography K6 Special Edition for EPSON Stylus Photo 1400 The offer from us is good until August 31, 2008. To take up EPSON's offer you better h urry up as supplies may be limited. Their special incentive also ends on Aug 31, 2008. Happy printing! Jon Cone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Hi wparsonsgisnet, Take a look here Joh Cone Piezography and Epson 1400. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share #2 Posted August 14, 2008 C'mon, guys. Lots of people are reading this thread -- who's using piezography and can discuss alternative b/w printing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisfoto Posted August 14, 2008 Share #3 Posted August 14, 2008 Most of what we are discussing can be gleaned from Cone's InkjetMall website. To much to explain here. But, I would suggest that you run the Epson R2400 using QuadTone Rip, it is likely the same printer rip that you will use for the Epson 1400. This will give you different results from using Epson's standard drivers, but allow you to tone the B&W prints. If you like using QuadTone Rip, then you can try a set of cartridges what Cone has for the R2400, or go for the 1400, as a dedicated B&W printer. However, If you do not like using QuadTone Rip, then proceed with caution. (I think it is fantastic, and use it on my R2400 and Espson Pro 7600, both with Epson inksets.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted August 14, 2008 Most of what we are discussing can be gleaned from Cone's InkjetMall website. To much to explain here. But, I would suggest that you run the Epson R2400 using QuadTone Rip, it is likely the same printer rip that you will use for the Epson 1400. This will give you different results from using Epson's standard drivers, but allow you to tone the B&W prints. If you like using QuadTone Rip, then you can try a set of cartridges what Cone has for the R2400, or go for the 1400, as a dedicated B&W printer. However, If you do not like using QuadTone Rip, then proceed with caution. (I think it is fantastic, and use it on my R2400 and Espson Pro 7600, both with Epson inksets.) Thanks for responding. I take it that you do NOT use Cone's piezo carts at all, is that right? Would you mind discussing your printer workflow, including the sw that you use to print, and post a pic of one of your b/w prints. I'd like to hear your feelings about your b/w process. The reason I am being cautious is that I had a CIS on a 1270, and after a year and a half of messing around with this stuff and not liking the color balances, I ended up getting a 2200 with archival inks. During the entire time I was CIS-ing it, the 2200 was out there with archival inks and simplicity. I could have saved a l-o-t of money, time, and lousy prints I'm very happy printing with ImagePrint and don't necessarily want to buy a printer that Epson may be sunseting. I don't need a printer that only Jon Cone makes inks for. Thanks again, and to others who will fill out this discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scho Posted August 14, 2008 Share #5 Posted August 14, 2008 A cheaper alternative that will give comparable results: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 14, 2008 Share #6 Posted August 14, 2008 Try the Quad Tone RIP. I've been trying it on my 3800, and there's a lot less bronzing using Harman Bayata paper than with the standard driver. There's a fully functional trial version here... QuadToneRIP Overview Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neelin Posted August 14, 2008 Share #7 Posted August 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I blew a Piezeo cart set on my R2400 on five 13x19's. I've got a demo cart set from Media Street that they offer discounted to determine if you want to buy their Niagra continuous inking system & pigments. I have yet to try it. Given the word out there that the R2400's have built in genetic "self-destruct" stuff that needs to be dealt with, and the fact it's a pig on ink (and cleaning cycle ink, i see from some intenet research) the offer looks good on the 1400. Even if it has a genetic self destruct, you don't have too much money in on it.. I'm convinced (but not yet using) continous inking is the way to go. I love the Piezeo results, but I'm not making money from this stuff, so I pretty trigger shy in a lot of ways. Can't say I've helped you choose, but I feel better <rant off> robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisfoto Posted August 14, 2008 Share #8 Posted August 14, 2008 If you want a sample, the best way to get one would to be to contact Cone, and ask him to send you something. He might be able to give you suggestions on the R2400 and other alternatives. A photo of one of my prints would not show you much. Cone might also be able to put you in touch with someone in your area that could show you some prints. About 4 years ago, I spent a week at Cone Press in Vermont taking a course on printing. They are usually very helpful. If you are already using a rip, OK. However, QuadTone Rip is only about a$50 donation. It is easy to download and install. The most important part of the Rips are the profiles. I like the profiles included with the QuadTone Rips. You can also do split tone printing with it. Since QuadTone is devoted strictly to B&W printing, has a large user group, and low cost it has a devoted following for that use. Epson's marketing strategy, model introduction and oblesence policies are another topic altogether. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted August 18, 2008 Share #9 Posted August 18, 2008 I've been curious about the piezography system. But I've been very hesitant to try out a continuous ink system. I've read so much about maintenance issues - I worry that I don't print enough to keep one of these systems from getting clogged. So I pretty much limit myself to inks I can buy in cartridges for my Epson 2400. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjt1 Posted August 18, 2008 Share #10 Posted August 18, 2008 Bill I will second the recommendation for MIS and Paul Roark, having used their stuff for about 4 years now. In case the following sounds like a plug, I have no connection with either. Paul Roark invents many inksets and workflows around them, and MIS sells the inks and other bits and pieces. I usually buy bottles of ink, syringes and empty carts, and fill them myself with the syringes, although you can buy prefilled carts. MIS do a little machine that resets the chip on the carts, so when you fill up, you reset the chip and the printer knows its full again. MIS Website: Ink Cartridges ~ Inkjet Refill Kits ~ Fine Art Paper ~ Pigment Inkjet Ink ~ Laser Toner ~ Bulk Feed Systems ~ CFS ~ CIS ~ Accessories : Inksupply.com Their B&W inksets are listed here Black and White Ultratone Inkjet printer ink - Inksupply.com, and I have used the EZN and EZW in a C86 and the UT-3D in an epson R220 for about 2 years now and both produce great results. I used to have the UT2 inkset in a 1280 (actually 1290 in the UK) and that produced great results, but the 1290 was notoriously problematic with pigment inks (clogs and missing etc). I have done a bit of research and it seems that the 1400 does not have this problem. I think that Epson sorted this problem after the 1280, and my experience with the C86 and R220 certainly agrees with this. The UT3D inks in the R220 can print glossy and matte without changning inks and the inks themselves (and consequently the tone of the print) are controlled with curves that distribute the R G and B componets, which in turn control the C M and Y ink positions. If you're not used to it, this can be a bit strange at first, especially when you see what the curves do to the picture on the screen! Actually, I have on order a 1400 and MIS UT1400 right now! UT1400 is a flexible toneable inkset that can print glossy or matte, and it is described here: UT14 Black and White Ink Set There is a readme as well: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf The ink will take a while to turn up as I am in the UK, but I can let you know what I think when I know. I am optimistic, based on my previous experiences above. I have not seen piezography up close so I have no idea how it compares, but I can confirm that I have been very pleased with the quality of the prints I get out of my epson printers with MIS ink, and per page its inexpensive. There is a yahoo group dedicated to B&W printing, and it is DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint : Digital BW, The Print Paul Roark is a hero on this forum and not only invents the inksets for us to play with, he is very forthcoming with help and I have asked him tons of questions in the past and always the replies have been prompt and highly informative. Lately I have been experimenting with making ICCs for UT3D using a spyder print fix pro, and this has been very successful. You can also use the UT3D and UT14 inksets with Quadtone RIP and I am just embarking on using this, although at the moment I just print through PS or Lightroom. Hope all this is useful. If you have any more questions please ask away! Steve Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted August 18, 2008 Share #11 Posted August 18, 2008 I messed around with Piezography a few years ago, and made some nice prints even at a time when things are much cruder than now. However, if you are working commercially, I doubt that you'll really see much difference between Piezography prints and prints that you can make with a decent RIP, or even by working up specialty settings on Photoshop. Again, I'm not completely sure of myself when I say this, but I think a lot of the alternative black and white printing methods are enthusiast methods, or craftsman methods, used mostly by people who are as interested in the craft as in the final print. I suggest you do some reading on the printing forum of Luminous Landscape, and you may conclude that any benefits of the craftsman methods are fairly small. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmcsu Posted August 18, 2008 Share #12 Posted August 18, 2008 Bill, I have used Peizography inks now for about 7-8 years starting with CIS set-up using PiezoTone inks to the last 3-4 years usinga 7500 Epson to run cartridges with Neutral K6 Piezography inks . I have been using the Poster/StudioPrint RIP for about 4-5 years & they have supported most printers(lineraization) for B & W until the x880 series of Epson printers. I have not tried the Quad Tone RIP for these inks but those who use them regularly klike them & the price is right. Granted the set-up I am using is way different than what you are looking at, but the print output is just wonderful with Piezo-type inks. I do use only matte papers & thus the Dmax isn't like some of the current crop of non-matte papers, but under glass they look great & without any bronzing. The Cone systen has worked well for me in the fine art business for years now & their support has been very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesh Posted August 20, 2008 Share #13 Posted August 20, 2008 I just got an email from Jon Cone's site about the Epson 1400 special offer. This is the printer that Cone says enables his best piezography offering. I'm considering it. $200 for the printer (with free shipping and 2 $50 rebates), then the Cone stuff. Bill, if you still haven't jumped in for the 1400 you might want to look at the Epson site today - the 1400 refurbs seem to be on a final reduction - too good a deal to miss and no rebate to claim, so I bit the bullet. Since they seem to be clearing the shelves no doubt there's a new model on the way, but that's the price you pay bargain shopping..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted August 21, 2008 Thanks, Lesh. Can't turn down a printer for 40 bucks! With the refurb, there's still the double rebate, I believe. I also bot the cone system. There's a discount of $50 involved until the end of this month. If it makes 500 prints, as suggested in his email in the first post, then it'll be less then $1 a print for the inks, including the CIS. A full replacement set of inks is about $270, so less then 50 cents at that point. Guess I'm giong to be doing some b/w printing. 'Course, if you've looked at the prices for these specialty papers, on the inkjetmall site, you'll see that archival b/w papers are really special products. I'll report back........ Thanks for the tip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesh Posted August 21, 2008 Share #15 Posted August 21, 2008 Bill, Sorry to perhaps be the bearer of bad news, but as far as I can see the rebate forms all say that "used" products don't qualify. I'd guess that implies the Refurbished items. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong forms, but anyway maybe it's worth a try. I'm still happy with the deal. Just planning to use it for colour stuff, but will be interested in hearing how it works for you with B&W/Piezography - keep us posted. Sounds like an interesting challenge and maybe another 'craft' to explore at a later date, but I guess it would mean separate dedicated machines. (Dunno if here's room on my desk for two of these beasts) Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted August 21, 2008 Les, it looks to me like the rebate is legit. Guess I'll find out when I try to submit it. As it happens, I just got an email from Inkjetmall and they are backordered for the ink system for this printer. They expect more inventory next week. That'll teach 'em to send out an email for a special offer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted September 1, 2008 OK, the printer came and then the CIS from Cone. I got it working yesterday -- after reshelving my room and moving everything around. I now have 3 printers in a "stack" on the left of the desk, using steel shelves form the Container Store. Works well and looks good. Printing is a l-o-n-g process. first C1 for the RAW processing. I think I'll omit this step, because all I'm doing is w/b and then desaturating the image in PS. I think I can skip this step (old habits die hard -- or maybe C1 is a new habit). In PS, I'm desaturating and applying levels and some contrast if warranted. Then running the QuadToneRip (I will have to pay the shareware price on top of the printer, and Cone stuff). I like it. So far, the b/w's look great. Now I have to experiment with some b/w processors. I'll take recommendations, tho there's been a lot of this already on some other posts. I have a couple of these and -- as I complained before here many times -- will rework my process because of new hw or sw. It's not all bad news, tno. I've been waiting for a long time to start doing this. I like the 200-year life, and what the hell, the paper is only 8 times as expensive as Ilford glossy color stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share #18 Posted October 28, 2008 I just got an email from Jon Cone's site about the Epson 1400 special offer. This is the printer that Cone says enables his best piezography offering. I'm considering it. $200 for the printer (with free shipping and 2 $50 rebates), then the Cone stuff. Bill, if you still haven't jumped in for the 1400 you might want to look at the Epson site today - the 1400 refurbs seem to be on a final reduction - too good a deal to miss and no rebate to claim, so I bit the bullet. Since they seem to be clearing the shelves no doubt there's a new model on the way, but that's the price you pay bargain shopping..... Two items: I am about to get the second rebate check for $50, so this printer cost less than $50. I ended up having to replace the first printer, but the second is working fine. I like this 1400-Piezo K6 stuff. Now, I have to learn to do b/w so it has the right contrast and sharpening (blowups get upsized properly in ImagePrint, but the contract suffers). Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share #19 Posted November 17, 2008 I got John Beardsworth's "Advanced Black & White Photog" that was recommended to me elsewhere here. Good reading. After wrestling with it a while I used the section that describes working with ACR. I posted the result for one of my images here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/69609-trying-b-w-tools.html I'd like comments and suggestions. Thanks in advance, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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