biglouis Posted July 31, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've been researching the older Elmar 90/4 M lenses and I wondered what the differences are between the rigid and collapsible 90/4s? The rigid ones are in all cases up to £100 cheaper than their collapsible brethren so is there something in the specifications that I am missing, or is the optical quality better on the callapsibles? LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Hi biglouis, Take a look here Difference between rigid and collapsible 90/4. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted July 31, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 31, 2008 I'd imagine the difference is due to rarity value. I had a 90mm Elmar a while ago. Optically not too bad, but the focussing ring had a very long throw that made it slow to focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted July 31, 2008 Share #3 Posted July 31, 2008 I had a collapsible 90/4 with an M mount for about 7-8 years and found it generally delivered good results with a relatively sharp, contrasty center field which became less so as you approach the periphery. Most of the work I did with it was color negatives, and the color balance was slightly warm. My personal problem, which I think was probably my specific lens, was that the focus ring wasn't smooth throughout its complete range...especially adjacent to the locked position. Other than that, I really had no complaints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 31, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 31, 2008 Later chrome screw mount rigids have a slightly different optical formula from the bayonet rigid. For practical work, you can`t see the difference. Just don`t put a screw mount head on a viso and expect it to focus to infinity. About 100 ft or 30 meters is all. That`s with the short focus mount. Rigid bayonet 90 4.0 with 39mm filters and the collapsible 90 4.0 have the same optics. Don`t know about the formula for black uncoated screw mout 90 4.0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 31, 2008 Share #5 Posted July 31, 2008 Elmar 90 is one of my passions, I have 7 of them, all different in something... : basically, this lens had only 2 design variants :during its long life : - The classical 4 elements Elmar design, used in thousands of SM items, and in the E39 rigid and collapsible BM versions. - The 3 elements design of 1964, used in the last versions, E39, not so common in BM ("only" 5000 items about) and rare in SM (400-500) Of course, the 4 elements design underwent modifications in glass formulas in the years (and was coated after WWII, from # 592.451) but the two BM versions have the same optic, as said above, and I see no difference in rendering from my items. The slightly higher mean price of collapsibles can be explained by its (relative) lower numbers vs. the many 4 elements in BM and SM... but it hasn't to be considered as rare... anyway is so different in aspect that this also can explain its relatively high evaluation. The 3 elements are a different story... they are really BETTER than all the others, expecially at 4-5,6 : it's still a lens very very usable, and can stand up well onto a M8. Their price is definitely higher (super high for the SM, but is a rare collectible), but, imho, if one wants an old lens to enjioy, this is the version to have. There is also, of course, the Emar-C 90 f4 for CL, 4 elements but a completely different design... another lens still good... but I prefer the 3 elements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted August 1, 2008 Guys, thanks for all the responses and especially the very detailed response from Luigi - fascinating information. Luigi, you may want to take a look at this! LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 1, 2008 Share #7 Posted August 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) WOW... screw mount... the seller is serious and the price isn't obscene... but sometimes even a collector must pose limits to his passion... ; I have the BM version, and, in my schema, I have decided that my "Elmar 90 sub-collection" has to be composed of items different in some detail, but regardless of the mount (for instance, I have the fixed mount 4 elem E 39 in BM, not in SM, and don't look for it)... even so, all the variants (finishing, scales, filters...) make an appreciable number... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted August 1, 2008 Share #8 Posted August 1, 2008 Elmar 90 is one of my passions, I have 7 of them, all different in something... Same with my passions...except if I had seven of them I'd be mainlining viagra. Definately rigid beats collapsable in that game On a seriouser note, I read somwhere that collapsable lenses don't always perform as good as the rigid one's because the tubes can get slightly sloppy over time. True? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 1, 2008 Share #9 Posted August 1, 2008 Same with my passions...except if I had seven of them I'd be mainlining viagra. Definately rigid beats collapsable in that game On a seriouser note, I read somwhere that collapsable lenses don't always perform as good as the rigid one's because the tubes can get slightly sloppy over time. True? Don't know... I have used a lot my collapsible on M4, but always with lot of care... ... surely the mechanism isn't simple as the collapsible 50mm's (you can collapse the tube only when lens is set to infinity, with a proper click) and more prone to wear or damage if one, for instance, tries to collapse when not at infinity, forcing... but looks a solid metal tube... more phallic than the rigids, all considered... ... well you anyway feel like a worm if happens to see someone with an old Hektor 135 obscenly protruding with all its solid length... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamhowa Posted August 5, 2008 Share #10 Posted August 5, 2008 The colapsable 90/f4 is one of the best leses I have ever owned. I loved it and wish I still had it. Currenly I am using an R system so no longer have it as part of my working collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted August 7, 2008 Share #11 Posted August 7, 2008 This is with the 9cm F4 collapsible Elmar on my M3. ISO 200 film, wide-open and hand-held. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter55 Posted August 7, 2008 Share #12 Posted August 7, 2008 How about the very fact that the collapsable lens ...well they can be collapsed. This makes for a much more compact camera/lens outfit and it improves the balance when walking around carrying the camera with this lens on it. I'm certainly very comfortable walking around with my camera and any collapesd lens on it. It also protects the lens since it does not protrude out as far. It only takes a moment to pull it out and twist it into the locked position. In my opinion that's worth extra money. I have four very extensive camera manufacturers camera/lens systems, but only my Leica's and their clones can be collapsed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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