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[lambroving]

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Uwe,

 

Read this. http://www.leica-camera-user.com/rules.php As you are a native German-speaker, you will know the reasons for Ron's remark. It is a lot quieter here in the English/International Forum.

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[uulrich]

Uwe, I must admit that I found it very strange for a moderator to describe someone's actions in open forum as 'poison'. I thought they were meant to be above such personal attacks. I'm sure if one of us described someone in these terms we would be asked to retract - to quote from the forum rules...

 

"Conflicts between individual members will not be tolerated on the forum."

Exactly. That's also my opinion and also my findings.

 

It's even worse. Evita cannot log into the forum and clarify. Instead Ronald does this ASOB crap. This time with his 'Moderator' account. Extremely annoying for me, almost humiliating.

[uulrich]

Evita, now it´s clear to us. You are on a MISSION.

We do not accept that you also poison the international forum as long as you don´t have trouble here. No transfer of discussion!

We will not discuss this in the wrong forum.

 

Ronald as Moderator;

 

Why don't you act according to the rules...? Play by the rules or the game is nothing.

 

'all participants are obliged to interact in a civilized and respectful manner and in a manner which is not likely to cause offence to other forum members.'

 

Ronald, I certainly can explain these words to you but I am afraid it would be useless. :-(

[stunsworth]

Uwe,

 

Read this. http://www.leica-camera-user.com/rules.php

To further quote from that page...

 

"Defamation of another person is prohibited in general".

 

Now I'm not a German speaker and I realise that something obviously must have been going on in the German forum to provoke Ron into saying what he did, but shouldn't a mod have to obey the same rules as the rest of us? Shouldn't Ron's comment have been made in private correspondance to the individual concerned rather than in open forum?

[andybarton]

It is a lot quieter here in the English/International Forum.

 

Long may it remain so.

 

[vic vic]

ula-la - whats is going on here....

 

who is the second person - i guess stefan???

 

can any body explain briefly, please what is it all about - i missed it... pleasse uwe, ronald klaus immants....

 

evita, moderators, and andreas (hi andreas :-))) ... please take my words with the limitation that i dont know what happened here...

 

evita - is this a way to make your point, is this the way to fight for your opinion???

stefan - before u leave the debate/clatch - u have to prepare a ground (ground where u leave strong and maybe ground tat will aloow u to come back strong)... argumental and coolition... ya - a kind of political terms i use here - but it is the way it goes usually....

 

moderators and andreas... i dont know what happened there, but stefan and evita where among the most valuable voices of this forum (at least the international, dont know about german, have no time to play with both forums). it is a pity that the leave.... i think now the leica forum will become more and more like a question "why m8 is not full frame, and only if it was full frame...". it is not that intrestening. those two have a strong tone on the forum... not strong and intense enough as they can but it was there and it is very imporant. i hardly can imagine what they could have done something so terrible that in the concequance i would make them to be eliminated from the forum....

 

i hope they will be back...... personally, i had alot of clatches with them (especially with stefan) but i always concidered them as my partners to make my points and to give them room to make there points. and beyound my personal note... from what i see in this month or so that im on the forum... they are simply important "tone" of this forum....

 

evita... im really intrested to see further your work... u know my website, u will find how to contact with me.. i will be glad to see on

[andybarton]

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<snip> but shouldn't a mod have to obey the same rules as the rest of us?

 

Of course.

 

However, those of us who have to rely on google for our translation, rather than 5 years under the care of Dr Palme in Senior School, cannot fully understand what is going on. Therefore, I would consider it best if we let this particular "Schlafenhund" lie.

[lambroving]

To further quote from that page...

 

"Defamation of another person is prohibited in general".

 

Now I'm not a Gernam speaker and I realise that something obviously must have been going on in the German forum to provoke Ron into saying what he did, but shouldn't a mod have to obey the same rules as the rest of us? Shouldn't Ron's comment have been made in private correspondance to the individual concerned rather than in open forum?

 

Steve,

 

I gather that is precisely what was going on there. While I can't speak for Ron, I also gather his remarks were a warning to others who might be inclined to try the same stunt in future. Not easy being a moderator which is one of the reasons I did not volunteer. I already moderate another list which is more genteel. Had anything similar transpired there, I'd have deleted the member instantly. Andreas prefers a softer approach here with warnings and suspensions, but in the end, there is no reason for the majority to be inflicted with endless carping. You will recall how friendly the Forum was a couple of years ago? That is the objective IMO.

[Guest stnami]

Vic the loss of sparring partners leave empty spaces and in this case a sour taste as well. What transpired I don't know but it was on the cards the long knives were out a long time ago.

voice le temps des assassins

[stunsworth]

William, I have no problem what so ever with someone being repremanded if their posts are taken to be offensive. What surprised me was that a moderator would describe someone's actions as 'poison' in open forum.

 

I also think that Andreas's approach is better than the draconian one that you favour - we've discussed this before and I know neither of us are going to change out opinion :-)

 

I can't say I'm too happy about Ron posting under multiple identites as it can only cause confusion - I hadn't realised until today that they were both the same Ron Schmidt. I'd actually thought this was specifically disallowed and was rather surprised to discover that we are all free to have multiple identities.

[jmr]

Steve,

 

as far as I can see, one of the Ronald Schmidts doesn't seem to have made any posts.

[vic vic]

william - exuse me - but this is not gentelman's club - although we can behave like gentalmas and nobel people of course.

this forum is "leica" forum as far as i know.. this is why im here... there are different opinions and different people, of course... what is wrong with it???? why anybody should be eliminated???? what harm those "different" people bring to the forum. really, it is adult people here - every one has his/her opinion... no one needs here protection of the forum. one doesnt want to read osmething or to see - ignore it... there are alot of places to walk around in this forum. if one cannot resist to see something or to read something - than it seems to be valuable even if it is not "gentel" enough. if one doesnt like it but still goes and sees and reads - than it is his/her problem - not the forum. but forum is unted by the name of "leica", not old style "whisky/cigar" meetings of fine gentelmans with good and theatralic manners

[vic vic]

immants - hi :-)))

 

coll avator by the way.. i will change mine too :-)))

 

man.. ya, it doesnt feels that good as u say... both on personal level (from my side) and as forum perspective in my opinion at least.

 

so what then man.... what we study from here :-))))

i mean - i cannot study nothing at the moment cause i dont know what happened in details, but i think i understand what u say about the knives

[stunsworth]

Steve,

 

as far as I can see, one of the Ronald Schmidts doesn't seem to have made any posts.

 

Hi John, Ronald Schmidt 'da mod' - user ID 'Ronald' has made 305 posts. Ronald Schmidt 2 - user ID 'agnoo' has made 647 posts. Is there another one too? ;-)

 

If these are two separate people than obviously I've been talking rubbish for much of this thread :-)

[jmr]

Steve,

 

sorry about that; I naively confused both the Ronald Schmidts called Ronald Schmidt (one of whom hasn't posted anything) with the Ronald Schmidt called "agnoo".

 

I feel such a fool

 

PS I'm sure they're all very nice men.

[uulrich]

Steve,

 

as far as I can see, one of the Ronald Schmidts doesn't seem to have made any posts.

Ronald uses two accounts:-

 

'agnoo' and 'Rona|d' ; both identities belong to the same person.

 

I came to know this of some sort of an accitent. In a PN Ronald himself told me he's a moderator. Thus since one week I know they are the same.

 

I trust this helps.

[stunsworth]

Steve,

 

sorry about that; I naively confused both the Ronald Schmidts called Ronald Schmidt (one of whom hasn't posted anything) with the Ronald Schmidt called "agnoo".

 

There's also a Ronald Schmidt called Ronald Schmidt? I think I'm going to have to lie down ;-)

[vic vic]

a ha ha ronald - from the posts here it seems that u r either "criminal" (with dark intentions) or "lunatik" (with diverse identities).

 

which one do u prefer to talk with - a tough police investigator or a crazy psychiater :-)))))))))))))))

 

well, personally after a couple of comment exchanges with ronald i have realized that it is the same person (one user and one moderator). so i even stopped to call him RON (although it is essier for me as israely where it is a common name here, but i didnt know if he is jew :-)))))))))))))

besides - look at the avator - they are the same, same face with camera, same photographic style :-))))))

 

u see ronald - there is a third person too now :-)))))) it is better u will talk with psychiater, the police investigator can take very hard the existance of third person :-)))))))))

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[lambroving]

william - exuse me - but this is not gentelman's club - although we can behave like gentalmas and nobel people of course.

this forum is "leica" forum as far as i know.. this is why im here... there are different opinions and different people, of course... what is wrong with it???? why anybody should be eliminated???? what harm those "different" people bring to the forum. really, it is adult people here - every one has his/her opinion... no one needs here protection of the forum. one doesnt want to read osmething or to see - ignore it... there are alot of places to walk around in this forum. if one cannot resist to see something or to read something - than it seems to be valuable even if it is not "gentel" enough. if one doesnt like it but still goes and sees and reads - than it is his/her problem - not the forum. but forum is unted by the name of "leica", not old style "whisky/cigar" meetings of fine gentelmans with good and theatralic manners

 

Vic,

 

You are new here..., and obviously type fast...

 

This Forum is paid for by Leica. The last two were ON the Leica website. Good manners will be observed..., period.

 

As I just mailed another moderator privately, ".The Germans are more tolerant than I am. We have already lost too many good photographers/members due to rudeness. I was pretty happy with the Forum 2 - 3 years ago." A gentleman's club is unnecessary IMO but a friendly and helpful place to discuss Leicas is the key. We really HAVE lost a few highly skilled photographers due to the carping that went on in the past. This can't be tolerated.

[vic vic]

william - i dont know about the past - but i know that stefan for exaple is great photographer...

 

so what u would like to be leica - or talking about leica.... what leica wants???? a real communit that is gathered around leica, where there are good photographers who love their liecas and make with their cameras what suposed to be done with it (good photography), or another ROLLEX club.

 

how much we can talk about m8 full frame etc. how much we can talk about summilux summilux summicron .... it is not intresting. i come here cause i have some time to walk around the forum. i want to spend it and enjoy - see photos, and see real talks. ya, to contribute too, to contribute with showing my examples (i concider myslef as good photographer), and to reply people and maybe help them. not only with another thread about m8 sumilux vs summicron, but what can be done with those summiluxes too.

 

so leica decide what u want on this forum to be.... only ROLLEX club with m8 m8 summilux summilux, or u want that there will be photographers and artists too, who can have discussions, and ya, clatches too sometimes.

 

about tolarance... well JOHN LOCK, J.S.MILL - i think those to will be enough for the biggining. MILL has a very good book about it and about the freedom of speech.