The Future for Film

[davidada]

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BTW - on the CD - Vinyl thread, I think a common direction with a lot of audiophiles is direct encoding of the raw data to a server for direct digital playback via highly modified dacs.

I have a modified system based on the Olive Opus converted to play from DC battery source via battery powered dual monobloc amps.

The entire system is therefore off the grid and delivers a direct digital stream of pure music - no grunge - no $500 power cables and conditioners.

Before this I had a Mephisto CD player and Thorens analog deck- both gone on ebay after the server route.

[martinb]

Sorry to disagree Martin. I scanned the same 6X6 negs using both scanners and the differences, although minor, were there to see. While a slight increase in D-Max may no be all that influencial in that difference, I believe the newer 949 diffused light source was.

 

In the end it was a decision between the 848, which the dealer loaned me for a couple of months, and the 949, which was touted on sites like Scanhancer as being better due to the diffused light source ... and considering the considerably faster work flow ... it came down to money.

 

When Hasselblad offered a few remaining new 949s for not much more than the 848 in order to clear inventory for the new rebadged X scanners, it became a no brainer decision.

 

Then you should know better than me! I believe you.

I checked your website and you shoot some amazing wedding pictures. Do you shoot everything on film?

[vic vic]

david.. why u show me this car especially in this colour - im really crazy person when it comes to those kind of things :-)))))))))))))) sorry - cant look at it - it puts me on fire :-)))))))))))))

[davidada]

david.. why u show me this car especially in this colour - im really crazy person when it comes to those kind of things :-)))))))))))))) sorry - cant look at it - it puts me on fire :-)))))))))))))

You should try driving it! I was thinking of having Tri-X lettered on the side !

[mwilliamsphotography]

Then you should know better than me! I believe you.

I checked your website and you shoot some amazing wedding pictures. Do you shoot everything on film?

 

 

Thanks Martin. It's a mix of film and digital, but most of my favorites just happen to be on film : -)

[vic vic]

hi davidd :-)))))

 

u mean on the side of the car? in real life or with photoshop ?? :-))))))

 

yours???

 

i had a little drive of this car, but just a few minutes, so my impression is very initial and limited. i know better the older model (from 1996, those that were slightly before the fully refreshed current models).

just from the first impresion..... the oldr tagra is more rough which i like very much. the new one is far more civilized in driving. but ya, i think the new is a better car, but the roughness and the matcho charcter gone. guess this is the price for technological advance inserts in those newer models. also.. in the older model the feeling (interior design) is much more intime with the car and strieghtforward, and with the newer they are super-stylized and beautiful, but still very very exiting.

anyway, this car is out of my range at this stage, so i dont even think about it :-)))))))))))

 

by the way - do u know TVR ??? this is english car made in blackpool north england. hand made, everything by themselves.

this is the wildest thing i have ever seen. but the older model called chimaera. it is not in production anymore i think. i think now the tamora replaces it (???). the tvr chimery is really matcho car... wild, crazy, pure and eccentric machine.... a little frightening for the first times when u push it :-)))))))))) as far as i know, the new models retain those characters too. civilization is not part of it :-))))))))))

[stunsworth]

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by the way - do u know TVR ??? this is english car made in blackpool north england. hand made, everything by themselves.

 

Not any more I'm afraid. The company has been bought by a Russian and the factory closed down. I think the cars are going to be made in Eastern Europe.

 

I live about 70 km from Blackpool by the way :-)

[mwilliamsphotography]

There are some assumptions about film that keep it a pretty narrow perspective.

 

Film production with big companies was driven by "civilian" consumer demand, not advanced amateurs or professionals ... which was a small part of film output even in it's heyday. This is where digital has made it's biggest impact.

 

Motion pictures are still a heavy user of film. While all editing and effects are digital, the actual images originate on film. Hi-def has made inroads, and some biggies in Hollywood have touted digital, but it is still being resisted by DPs and Directors. My ad agency has never shot a commercial on video yet. I'm in NYC next week doing one that is effects heavy, but it'll still start out on film.

 

I also buy a lot of original music. Nashville and that sort of thing. We always use digital to generate the compositions, but when the real thing is produced, it's done with acoustic instruments. Not a rule mind you, just that not everything is digitally generated.

 

There is no doubt that film is being re-defined. Big companies may all go by the wayside. Yet, look at the film and analog article in Shutterbug's Photokina show report issue (pg. 117). It's crammed with news of film being redefined and making a come-back in a newly defined way. It may be that film and papers in the hands of some passionate specialty makers will return to the more silver rich content of yesteryear. THAT would put some extra pressure on digital capture and Ink-jet printing ... elevating the use of film to cult status craftmanship unequalled in the world of Xs and Os.

 

BTW, for those needing a central analog source look at Freestyle.

[vic vic]

marc.. im very much with u about everything u say.

 

and yes, im also have great commitment to film. nothing romantic in it from my side. man im young photographer and im relativly very new in this busneses. i have no real sentimentalizm to film like many other older proffesionals and artist can have. yes, when i was child in georgia(ussr), my family were great enthusiasts of photography, but my personal choice of film today is a matter of love to film as working medium, and that is the most important factor to me.

and ya, the most important thing to me as photographer/artist/pro is that im specializing in this medium, especially the b/w photography (including fine printing). and im telling u, if i give up on this b/w, then i can eassily give up on photography at all. believe me i can mae money in other fields too, maybe even more :-))))) i see the traditional photography (the b/w and the darkroom) as my proffesional dignity as well.

i will use the film as always, even after i will have my own digi medium system (waiting for the leaf new camera to become a functional unit, i think this camera will be more in my taste than the hasselblad). again, pure love of film, appriciation to this medium, and knowing what it is capable to do, and of course, i am capable to bring my films to their bests (technically and artistically).

 

about movie cameras... i have no real experience in making motion pics rite now, but im very enthusiastic to get into it very soon. guess what camera im gonna get for it :-)))) film camera - super16. no videos. this is a very expenssive game (far more than photography if u get into it seriously) but im happy that one fantastic cinemotographer here nailed down alot of thing for me, and it seems that i can get really nice things within my intended budget. so yes, it will cost more then having niice video stuff, but it is film, and i will pay for it more willingly :-)

 

im not man who is eassily agitated. all the talks and agressive agitations about digital photography does not impress me so much. and im also not exactly a person who will blindly go with where the river flows. i see what i see, and have very good eyes, and what i see with pleasure is film :-))))))

 

 

steve...... ah ok - i see u r from manchester... what football team???

man r u serious about it?? oh.. didnt know that. i mean i knew that russian guy bought the company but i dodnt know that the factory in blackp[ool is closed :-((((((((((((((((((

so what, they gonna change the cars or just gonna change the location of the factory.

if only i could do it now... the amazing porsche or the tvr tamora... i would go with the tamora. tell me if im wrong, but i think that tvr cars are the purest things in this indusrty... if they can improve some of their problems that could be cool, but hopefully, not on the expeses of their unique and puristic characteristics.

[stunsworth]

 

steve...... ah ok - i see u r from manchester... what football team???

man r u serious about it?? oh.. didnt know that. i mean i knew that russian guy bought the company but i dodnt know that the factory in blackp[ool is closed :-((((((((((((((((((

so what, they gonna change the cars or just gonna change the location of the factory.

 

Vic, I'm one of those people who don't support either club. Although I enjoy watching football I don't support a particular team - Bolton is the nearest club to where I live so I have a soft spot for them, but couldn't call myself a supporter.

 

The cars are going to stay the same as far as I know.

[LADP]

Motion pictures are still a heavy user of film. While all editing and effects are digital, the actual images originate on film.

and release prints are still primarily made on film and projected that way. This is where the big stock costs come in. 3000 + prints for U.S. distribution plus whatever extra for foreign distribution adds up quickly. This is changing soon though. Digital projection via satelite downlink to the theaters is coming. It will ultimately save the studios and theater chains a LOT of money. This will NOT save the paying audience anything. Higher profit for the studios and theater chains will be one result.

 

Hi-def has made inroads, and some biggies in Hollywood have touted digital, but it is still being resisted by DPs and Directors.

Yes, we do for the most part. 35mm still reigns king, but various digital camera systems are making inroads. It's getting closer. Apocalypto may be the best looking digitally shot feature to come yet. The trailer looks promising.

 

My ad agency has never shot a commercial on video yet. I'm in NYC next week doing one that is effects heavy, but it'll still start out on film.

What campaign or spot? I think a good buddy of mine who I had lunch with yesterday may be your SFX supervisor. Eric Pascarelli is his name.

[vic vic]

ha ha steve... bolton :-))) do u know what bolton has done to arsenal a few days ago? :-((((((

i guess no championship for arsenal :-((

anyway - two israely guys are in bolton. i think they do a good job there. have not seen the game, and have not seen bolton playing this season though.

 

got to the tvr website, new bebsite seems to be. anyway - hope they will make their cars as always. i know, it is not the great british traditional name (like aston martin) but i think it is the greatest proud of brits car making in the most beutiful traditions :-)))))

[djcastelli]

Hi folks,

Here's the solution: buy a walk-in commerical freezer. Estimate how much film and paper you shoot in a year. Add 10% to that number. How old are you? When do you expect to die? 5 years? 10 years? Multiply the number of rolls & boxes of paper by the number of years you have left. Forgo the large screen TV, take the money you would have spent on the TV and stock the freezer. Happy shooting. Your next-of-kin will sell what's left on eBay.

Me? I'm going to by my HP-5 from B&H as I need it. Same with the paper. As for longevity, the males in my family have a nasty habit of dying between 70 & 75 years old. I'm 55. You do the math.

Keep buying film. Be prepared to spend more for the product. It will never go away in my lifetime ('course my doctor is working on that). I teach photography at a high school in the US. There is a 3 year waiting list to enroll in my b&w film class. I also teach graphic design. That is where I teach digital photography. I treat digital images like I treat type selection, color choices and clip art...just another element to design with. The black & white traditional images are treated as art.

I'm going out shooting...the clock is ticking.

Dan

[kamilsukun]

Film is pipe smoking. Digital is cigarette.

 

Film will be an extreme specialist activity. After getting used to digital, dealing with film's long processes is almost impossible in todays pace of life. Digital is much more convenient. This convenience inevitably wins.

 

And for CD's and LPs.

 

LP is definitely a better medium than the CD. Although both sounds are dependent on various recording, production and playback parameters, CD can not match or outperform the realistic output of an analogue medium yet. Not even in discotheques. Ear can recognize the difference.

 

CD pictures the sound. LP actually plays it.

[nachkebia]

Again and again! I find black and white film photography to have very bright future and I am very happy I am part of it

[wattsy]

Hi folks,

Here's the solution: buy a walk-in commerical freezer. Estimate how much film and paper you shoot in a year. Add 10% to that number. How old are you? When do you expect to die? 5 years? 10 years? Multiply the number of rolls & boxes of paper by the number of years you have left.

 

Film stored in a freezer doesn't have an indefinite lifespan. Unless you store the freezer deep underground (e.g. at the bottom of a coalmine?), the cumulative effect of cosmic rays will eventually fog the film. I have no idea how long it would take but I'm sure that film that is 10-20 years beyond its expiry date will be substantially impaired.

[andybarton]

A lead lined commercial freezer might be the answer...

 

[davidada]

Film is pipe smoking. Digital is cigarette.

 

Film will be an extreme specialist activity. After getting used to digital, dealing with film's long processes is almost impossible in todays pace of life. Digital is much more convenient. This convenience inevitably wins.

 

And for CD's and LPs.

 

LP is definitely a better medium than the CD. Although both sounds are dependent on various recording, production and playback parameters, CD can not match or outperform the realistic output of an analogue medium yet. Not even in discotheques. Ear can recognize the difference.

 

CD pictures the sound. LP actually plays it.

I agree on CD - LP, however,listening to direct encoded data playing back through custom DACs directly from disk is to me even better sound than vinyl - it is vinyl without the ultimate loss of quality through wear and teat on the LP.

[davidada]

Again and again! I find black and white film photography to have very bright future and I am very happy I am part of it

Quote from article in BJP today:

"The closure of London pro labs Sky Imaging UK and Ceta is shocking, but sadly not that surprising. Way back at the start of the year, US-based organisation Photo Marketing Association reported that total volumes of traditional film processing declined by 11.5% in 2005 and the volume of prints made from digital camera images increased by 62%. The figures for 2006 will no doubt be similar, if not more dramatic, and figures like that don't leave much room for traditional labs."

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[lars_bergquist]

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Hmm, where I work we have to keep a hard copy of every e mail we receive or send, I've yet to witness the so called paperless office.

 

More OT, see this; LEE'S CAMERAS (HOLBORN) LTD. Specialists in Cine, Audio Visual & Photographic Equipment - bit of an eye opener!

 

I'll believe in the paperless office when I see the paperless toilet. And yes, I'm a designer of digital type, but 'digital paper' will also need type -- so I've no axe to grind.

 

The old man from the Age of Lead Type