Any digital filmmakers out there

[Nick De Marco]

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Despite spending too much of my 'disposable' [it’s not really!] income on an M8 earlier this year, and some lenses to go with it [which now accompany my Canon 5D and various film Ms] I am re-awakening a desire for film making.

 

Many years ago, before becoming a barrister, I used to be a professional film and video editor, and I am a dab hand with a movie camera. Back in those days (early 90s) the idea of an individual not at the top of their trade having their own professional standard video camera and edit suite was just fantasy. With the digital revolution it is now real- we can all now be home movie makers (editing on our Macs).

 

So I am thinking of buying the Canon HV30 (looks like the best camera you can buy that is still portable enough to share a small bag with an M8 in)... I wondered if any other Leica users on here also dabble in movie making. And more importantly, as an anxious reflex to my equipment junkie condition, I have been wondering how you combine the two if you do. Can you sensibly take both a good video camera and your M8 on a trip abroad for example? Do you use video one day, stills camera the next, or do you find it possible to carry both around with you and select the medium you want for the event you come across? Just wondered about others' experience..

 

Thanks

 

Nick

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[Overgaard]

I did buy a canon XM1 or something some years ago, video-tripod, lights, wireless microphones, etc, etc but made sure to get rid of it after a year (for the price of a Minilux!) because to was too time-consuming.

 

One thing was shooting some event, private or business, but then it took the same time to transfer the footage and look at it, then time to edit and add sound and music, and then distribution. So few projects are less than a days work, no matter if it's the kids doing a play in kindergarten or some important project.

 

To get rid of it was a good solution for me at that time, but from time to time I consider getting into video again because it's a powerful media. But I think I would then find a team to work with to take some of the load off and/or set up with a wire service or something where they would simply get the raw footage along with some kind of manus - and then do the rest.

 

Some projects are worth a lot of work, and those in turn also require the right camera, light and sound equipment.

 

I think an important issue with a video camera, besides 3CCD, is that it has a portable size, yet large enough to handheld well or rest well on a tripod. The pocket ones I've tried is just impossible to do real pro stuff with because controls lacks, preview sucks but mostly you cant get them to stand proper on a tripod or anything.

 

Anyway, my 5 cents on this.

 

If ... I would look at Sony HDV - Z1 or some of the Panasonic ones.

[adan]

Actually, yes, as multimedia (slide shows and movies) become a significant part of our newspaper's presence on the web, I just last week took the plunge on my first ever video camera. 3CCD, 1080 HDTV JVC HD3U (was $1395, got on closeout for $800). The young, pierced kid who has been giving me snippets of advice on formats and compression and all that esoteric stuff of digital video just got himself the Canon HV30.

 

Absolutely adore the color, resolution, and format of HDTV. Makes the old 3:4 box look so fuzzy and dull. Already have 3 shoots into post-production in iMovie after one weekend shooting.

 

Biggest decision really is still tape vs. hard-drive vs. DVD vs. flash/solid-state media. My guru says solid-state still is just a bit slow for clean video. He went with tape - I went with hard disk.

 

Be aware that digital video eats Gigabytes like popcorn - may want to get that Terabyte drive before getting the camera. Plus a fluid tripod for smooth pans, and there's a whole world of microphones out there(!!)

 

As to video side by side with stills - my JVC is about the size of a 100 Macro lens. Pretty easy to carry it + backup M8, plus 3 lenses in my medium-sized bag, with the other M8 + a lens carried externally ready to shoot.

 

Not as easy to shoot both at once, though. You have to take motion and sound into consideration as extra dimensions, so it really takes a mental gear change to swap from one to the other.

 

Video cam makes a nice portable AUDIO recorder as well, both for notes and names, as well as grabbing wild sound for digital slide shows. The sound can be "extracted" from the video recordings.

[Nick De Marco]

That's helpful, thanks.

 

I did borrow a Canon camcorder 3 years ago and made a couple of films I spent weeks or months editing on the computer. No doubt that it eats up GBs (was one of the reasons I had to buy a new computer and portable HD), and also eats up so much time. But as someone trained in, and with a passion for, film and video editing I really enjoy the process and I think it's so exciting we can all do it at home now, to more or less the same standard (technical) I was working at 15 years ago on equipment that would have cost you 10s of thousands.

 

I have used iMedia before and it is a really good free programme, but having researched I feel to get really good output it is probably worth investing in Final Cut 2 (which appears to be the Photoshop of computer digital movie editing - and costs as much too).

 

I shall buy the HV30 today and hopefully get a bit of practice in this weekend. I'm buying an abandoned house in the village my ancestors come from in Southern Italy in a few weeks and wanted to make a film charting the development of it from the state it's in now to the state I hope it will be in in 6 months to 1 year - something for prosperity - to watch - I hope - when sitting comfortably in a nice holiday home there. That's what made me think I could really use a movie format rather than just stills.

 

I'm delighted you can carry both camera about with you - my only real fear is if I have one with me on a trip I won't use the other - I know I have to make a very conscious effort to decide when to use what - but that is probably a good thing - aimlessly waving a video camera is as irritating as photographing everything you see.

[Phillip_Meyer]

Hi Nick,

 

Do post your experiences with the video camera back here, I'm thinking of getting a new HD video camera (mainly to shoot our 4 month old baby as he grows up) so your experiences would be really valuable.

 

Also I'd love to see some video and pictures of your new house, its sounds delightful!

 

Phillip

[Guest stnami]

I have a HV20, great camera but software can be a bit iffy especially with the high definition aspect ................ put things on hold so I can get a really good grasp on Premier & After Effects( didn't go the mac way). I am not interested in point and shoot video stuff

Took the camera away for 5 weeks to the Stans, found that switching from stills to moving was a pain, decisions were based about what to use where, gave up and stayed with the stills as it was more productive. Got some footage but not good enough as far as I am concerned

It is a bit like taking photos you ask yourself what are you going to do with the footage ........ considering most footage is rarely viewed, If you just want to record a event for keepsake then just shoot with any video camera. Extending beyond raw footage is another level of thinking .....

 

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[jfolmes]

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Many years ago... ...Back in those days (early 90s) the idea of an individual not at the top of their trade having their own professional standard video camera and edit suite was just fantasy.

 

And it still holds true. A "professional standard video camera and edit suite" is still today beyond the means of even most professionals. The fact that professionals use consumer or as it been now termed prosumer equipment does not make the equipment professional.

 

Although I do agree that "we can all now be home movie makers (editing on our Macs)." and with some talent compete with the professionals who tend to churn out cheap content

 

My advice when buying video camera is to buy what you can afford now and for what you will use the camera for now. In a year it will be obsolete. Don't go for the sale gimmicks. The less menus, the less special effects the better. Look at the lens before you look at the CCD. 3CCD's are all well but with a lens that you can't control focus, zoom and iris the CCD's are not going to help you capture good images. Show me a consumer video camera with interchangeable lens and I'll show you a winner. Would you buy a still camera with a zoom lens that you can't change? Although 3CCD's are better then one the issue now is not how many CCD's a camera has, as most have 3 but the size of CCD's which translates into the processing power of the image that reaches the CCDs'. Remember what's before the CCD's a lens...

 

Tape is still the most reliable recording medium (besides celluloid). DVD or any optical discs recording is still prone to dust particles getting onto the laser "eye". Solid state "flash cards" type are not big or fast enough yet and hard drives are prone to shakes. Right now it looks like Blu-ray Disc and some form of solid state "flash cards" will be the winners in professional equipment.

 

Yes, I think you can "sensibly take both a good video camera and your M8 on a trip abroad" but selecting the medium you want for the event you come across will always be a compromise. You will find that you will miss the best still shots when you record video and vice versa. That's why there are still photographers and video cameraman(woman) at most events. You can't do both well at the same time.

[Bostontom]

Brand new to the forum (just bought, yet to take delivery on a Digilux 2), but I have been a professional documentary film maker for about twenty years.

 

I'd add two thoughts to the others on this thread.

First: SOUND. The ability to use a high quality external microphone is essential if you want to do good work. The ability to acquire good sound -- better than that available with the on-board mike will make your work with the camera much more satisfactory. My own preference is for a camera that has professional XLR inputs -- but that puts most of the consumer cameras out of reach.

 

Second: I'm not much one for the format wars -- and the end use of your films will dictate how much flexibility you have here, but I'd stick with HDV, not AVHDC for now, and I have a bias towards tape for any serious field work. It's easy to get, holds lots of data (effectively, an infinite amount -- just pull another cassette out of the box) and it gives you an archival back up. Once digitized, you put your masters on a shelf and don't touch them until/unless you have to.

 

That said -- at the 5,000 dollars + range, both Sony and Panasonic have intriguining solid state cameras -- and if you get very serious about your video interests, the Panny HVX 200 and the Sony XDCAM EX both have their partisans. (I've never used either -- or rather, the cameramen I've worked with have either worked with high end film or digital cameras or else the Panny 100, a fine, relatively cheap, but SD camera.)

 

The other question to consider is whether this is a tripod based project for you or if you want to get the camera on your shoulder and go walkabout. If the latter, then the ergonomics of the camera will matter a lot -- and the purchase of one of the cheap stabilizer/poor-man's steadicam rigs might be in your future.