bullis Posted May 19, 2008 Share #21 Posted May 19, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kodak still makes EASTMAN DOUBLE-X - 5222 negative movie film, 35mm. You'd have to bulkload it yourself. I think it's the same emulsion that HCB and others, back in those days used. That is a great film, but I haven't yet found a local source. One of my friends told me that Freestyle in Los Angeles has it, but all I could find is the 16mm size. If anyone has seen it I'd appreciate knowing where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 19, 2008 Posted May 19, 2008 Hi bullis, Take a look here Best B&W for 50's look. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bullis Posted May 19, 2008 Share #22 Posted May 19, 2008 I just figured out how to attach files. Fun!! The grave image was done with the single coated Nokton 40mm f/1.4 on FP4, happened to be processed in FG7 (since I'm processing in the truck camper, I wanted something convenient and supplied in liquid concentrate). FG7 is a good old developer which I have used off and on since 1964, so it has that ancient pedigree. Normally, I would process this film in Beutler's or Rodinal. The jawbone was done with the same lens, but on the 2475 film processed in MCM100. This is an amazing combination. It has that gritty but full scale look with great lower values that you might find in Gene Smith's magazine work. Of course, Smith was pretty liberal with the ferricyanide, which I try to avoid. The grain isn't very visible here, but you would be able to see it in the real print. I don't mind grain, as long as it is beautiful grain. I still have a few factory loads of 2475 and about 75 feet of bulk, hope it is still good. When it is gone, it is gone for good. Sad. But we've lost many films. I suspect that the 800 lb yellow gorilla will discontinue all the bw films within a couple of years, unless they decide it is in their interest to be a niche market player. They are just another producer among the rest now. Historically, that's not been their style. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/53366-best-bw-for-50s-look/?do=findComment&comment=562078'>More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted May 19, 2008 Share #23 Posted May 19, 2008 an interesting lens for b/w from Cosina: "Cosina introduced TWO versions of the 40/1.4 at Photokina 2004. The standard production version is the multi-coated Nokton Classic. The limited production version for the Japanese home market is the 40/1.4 S.C. This is where it gets confusing. Cosina already makes multi-coated SC lenses (no periods) in classic Nikon Rangefinder mount. The 40/1.4 S.C. stands for "Single Coated". Why you ask? Because there is more to photographic imagery than super sharpness and the best possible lens test results. Some Japanese photogs prefer the imagery of single coated lenses to multi-coated lenses, and so this limited edition version of 500 40/1.4 S.C. lenses. The first production run of the single coated 40/1.4 was a quick sell out in the Japanese home market. The 2nd production 40/1.4 SC lenses arrived 3/31/2005." Bernd ups, already mentioned...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted May 19, 2008 Share #24 Posted May 19, 2008 AFAIK Efke KB400 is re branded HP5+ and thus not really a vintage emulsion. I believe some of the ADOX films are re branded Ilfords as well. - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted May 19, 2008 Share #25 Posted May 19, 2008 regarding film im also with the ADOX art series (especially the 50iso which is very usable for general photography, and is an amazing film especially with modern lenses in my taste). besides, i think to select a good lens from about that period is more important than the film. lets say, a 50mm summicron from '50 with fuji across100 (in rodinal) will create more sense of '50 then adox film and 50mm new summicron. scanning/printing is also important. aesthetic perception of new subjects is another issue. some experimentation needed to see what u like and what exactly u mean by '50 "look". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhardt Isringhaus Posted May 19, 2008 Share #26 Posted May 19, 2008 That is a great film, but I haven't yet found a local source. One of my friends told me that Freestyle in Los Angeles has it, but all I could find is the 16mm size. If anyone has seen it I'd appreciate knowing where. Here's a source for short ends. Kodak Black and White Negative DOUBLE-X - 5222 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
palec Posted May 19, 2008 Share #27 Posted May 19, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) How about Fomapan 200? (it's Czech). Hasn't changed very much. It's cheap too, and easy. Well that's the most modern emulsion from Foma using T-grain crystals, I wouldn't use it to get vintage look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted May 19, 2008 Share #28 Posted May 19, 2008 Well that's the most modern emulsion from Foma using T-grain crystals Well it's a mix of cubical (triangle) and a kind of hexagonal crystals, a kind of Tgrain, but not build like Tmax or Delta technology. However like Tri-X (400) you can create a classical look with it, due to the regular grain. Another example: Efke 400 elmusion is equivalent of APX400 (old type, before 2004) bought by Efke in Croatia when Agfa Photo went in bankruptcy (2005). Ilford/Harman is not dealing with equivalent OEM products since 2005 and I think they ended all OEM contracts in 2006. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountaineer-American Posted May 19, 2008 Share #29 Posted May 19, 2008 All these responders offer valuable comments. If you send your films out the weakest link in the chain is the processing. The local shops where I live are no longer set up for film, not even the "professionals." They do a nice job with digital. But the photographs they produce from film are poor, usually dark & green. I send some of my films to A & I in California. They do a nice job more often than not. However their work is frequently inconsistent. And heaven help you if you call them on the telephone. You are clearly an interruption & they have no interest in talking with you whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspbr Posted May 19, 2008 Share #30 Posted May 19, 2008 Of course the lens is the principal factor to get a 50s look. The developer helps, of course... At that days the fine grain was almost a religion; look for the number of "fine grain developing formulas" section at any magazine! I would try any developer with great amount of sodium sulphite, or even with Sodium Tiocianate. This chemical dissolves the silver grains, and give a very particular look. Just go with care when using with high speed films. I never had problems with Tri-X, but I shoot as 200 ASA. The most popular developer of this kind is DK-20, a very good bath. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted May 19, 2008 Share #31 Posted May 19, 2008 You can get really outstanding vintage effects with modern films. I've been shooting the new Tmax 400 but down rating it to 100 asa and taking 25% off the development time in DDX. I use a Leitz Summar on a Leica III so the resulting negative is of low contrast. It prints beautifully. Your choice of lens will be the biggest factor in getting the results you want. Avoid what today we consider "quality" and go for a classic like the Summar or Sonnar. The Elmar 50 3.5 is another good choice, though it may be a bit contrasty. Best wishes Dan Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/53366-best-bw-for-50s-look/?do=findComment&comment=562951'>More sharing options...
ron110n Posted May 20, 2008 Share #32 Posted May 20, 2008 Here's my contributuion to the 50's look. Best, -Ron Leica M7, lux 50 asph, Efke 100, Fomadon R09 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haris Posted May 20, 2008 Share #33 Posted May 20, 2008 So, things are simple: Get lens from 50es, get EFKE or ADOX films (for example Fotoimpex Berlin | alles für die analoge Fotografie or Fotohuis if you are in Europe, or Freestyle if you are in USA), get Rodinal, or FR-4 (if you can't get it, formulae is at: http://www.fotokemika.net/), (source for buying as for film), or 777 (formulae at: 777 Fine Grain Developer) developer, get EMAX paper (source as for film) and there you are, getting look from 1950es Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted May 20, 2008 Share #34 Posted May 20, 2008 Here's a source for short ends. Kodak Black and White Negative DOUBLE-X - 5222 Thanks, I just ordered some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted May 20, 2008 Share #35 Posted May 20, 2008 Of course the lens is the principal factor to get a 50s look. The developer helps, of course... At that days the fine grain was almost a religion; look for the number of "fine grain developing formulas" section at any magazine! I would try any developer with great amount of sodium sulphite, or even with Sodium Tiocianate. This chemical dissolves the silver grains, and give a very particular look. Just go with care when using with high speed films. I never had problems with Tri-X, but I shoot as 200 ASA. The most popular developer of this kind is DK-20, a very good bath. Martin I personally do not at all care for those "fine grain" developers that employ excessive sulphite because they do precisely what you say they do. In dissolving the edges of the grains, they also are dissolving the edges of what the grains describe, producing a softened sort of mushy look. In other words, you get fine grain at the expense of acutance. I just don't like it. My question is, why have great lenses and do that to the images? Paraphenylene diamine is toxic, so be very careful with it, but it is a real fine grain agent. It produces grain that is very fine, but also leaves the sharp edges intact. MCM 100 is one of my favorite developers; it is composed of paraphenylene diamine and pyrocatechin, which gives the extremely fine and sharp grain with a wonderful ability to hold the highlights and keep the shadows full. It is NOT convenient, however. It's no more toxic than its close cousins which are used in color processes, so if you aren't afraid of color, you ought not fear it so much either. Just be careful with it. In mixing from powder/solid chemicals, especially. Getting chemicals into the blood is very efficiently done by inhaling; ask any smoker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhardt Isringhaus Posted May 20, 2008 Share #36 Posted May 20, 2008 Thanks, I just ordered some. You're welcome. I'd try it in D-76 for the look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspbr Posted May 21, 2008 Share #37 Posted May 21, 2008 I personally do not at all care for those "fine grain" developers that employ excessive sulphite because they do precisely what you say they do. In dissolving the edges of the grains, they also are dissolving the edges of what the grains describe, producing a softened sort of mushy look. In other words, you get fine grain at the expense of acutance. I just don't like it. My question is, why have great lenses and do that to the images? Paraphenylene diamine is toxic, so be very careful with it, but it is a real fine grain agent. It produces grain that is very fine, but also leaves the sharp edges intact. MCM 100 is one of my favorite developers; it is composed of paraphenylene diamine and pyrocatechin, which gives the extremely fine and sharp grain with a wonderful ability to hold the highlights and keep the shadows full. It is NOT convenient, however. It's no more toxic than its close cousins which are used in color processes, so if you aren't afraid of color, you ought not fear it so much either. Just be careful with it. In mixing from powder/solid chemicals, especially. Getting chemicals into the blood is very efficiently done by inhaling; ask any smoker. I don't think that DK-20 is a bad bath; and ever preferred the two-baths version, using borax. Personally I like the results - but of course this is very subjective! But I have to agree with Bullis about the results with Paraphenylene diamine, and its cousin Orto. My grandfather used a lot the Windish 665 formula, and the results are simply superb! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted May 23, 2008 Share #38 Posted May 23, 2008 I don't think that DK-20 is a bad bath; and ever preferred the two-baths version, using borax. Personally I like the results - but of course this is very subjective! But I have to agree with Bullis about the results with Paraphenylene diamine, and its cousin Orto. My grandfather used a lot the Windish 665 formula, and the results are simply superb! Martin There are no "bad baths", IMHO. The different formulae are for different purposes. Matching the developer to the film and both to the job at hand would involve potentially lots of factors, not the least of which would be personal preference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted May 23, 2008 Share #39 Posted May 23, 2008 W665: 700ml water, 65 grams Sodium Sulphite, 8 grams Ortho-phenylene Diamine, 8 grams Metol 7 grams Potassiummetabisulphite Developing temperature 19-20 degrees C. in the past sold as Perutz W665. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted May 23, 2008 Share #40 Posted May 23, 2008 This W665 recepture (nach Windisch) is still valid as pretty good developer in the same way AM50 (Amaloco Photochemicals) is a higher diluted version of AM20 (Pyrocatechine (3%) , pH 12,1 >1% hydroquinone ) which is from 1936! More or less the same type as Neofin Blau/Blue from the Tetenal company, Norderstedt-Germany. AM50 is still sold in our program. Same effect (=surface developer), super sharp and very suitable for e.g. a slow speed Rollei PAN 25 film. An example: On the border of the river Waal. Summicron 2,0/50mm Rollei Pan 25 @ E.I.25 in AM50 1+29 5:00 Min. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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