Film - ONLY bought by Leica users?

[garyp]

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A gentleman recently informed me [after seeing that I was shooting with R8 film bodies], that "Leica does make digital cameras too, you know".

I felt so old fashioned

[pgk]

For many years my local dealer, like many others, had shelves full of film behind the main counter and till, as well as a glass doored display fridge. I've watched as both have had their contents shrink until finally both were removed from the shop. Film is now sold from much smaller shelves below the counter - it has to be asked for!

 

The real question is: at what point will the more sophisticated, multi-layer films(expensive to make) such as Velvia lose economic viability? Perhaps Black & White film will outlast colour (!) but I personally have little doubt that film sales will continue to shrink - in the western world anyway. I'm considering selling my last film camera - an M6 - simply because if I'm honest about it, it simply doesn't get used these days.

[devils-advocate]

It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but the Japanese still appear to be shooting film in droves -- if the size of Yodobashi's film store and the price of film cameras in Japan are any indication. For anyone suffering film-nostalgia, a trip to Yodobashi is a mandatory pilgrimage...their film shop is bigger than the biggest camera in Canada....

 

- N.

[acpi1111]

i have just started buying 35mm films, because i quit digital camera and give it away and bought brand new m7. before with DSLR I felt i did not take picture, i just consume photography as we consume the other good things in our lives (shoot it, check it, shoot it check it, dont like it? delete it!! so what is the result? what have i challenged? NOTHING).

I had started feeling the attraction of film cameras, since then i realized i did not check pictures of last 3 batches of pictures for along 6 months in my computer. They were fake for me.

Since 2 weeks i use my m7 and my soul in peace. now, after shooting, I feel the warmth and worth of the moment in my camera. Moreover the surprise will come to me after develop them. It is a secret between me and the camera.

whenever i see a DSLR user, i pity at them. They mostly sit at a cafe and check their pictures as i did before and never check them again in my computer. I want to approach tell them do you feel the spirit in air ?

I am not against digital cameras by the way. just I am sharing the sense in me

 

Today i phoned some remaining film developing store and went to one,

Staff looked at the rolls and told me, they cannot promise about deadline, because nowadays they dont run their darkroom so often. I said " no problem! take your time, i know it has been hard to gather enough numbers of rolls to run a darkroom, just phone me when you did"

 

other hand i am challenging with films and seeing the point it has come... Another joy of me.

 

thanks for reading

[gberger]

Just going through the checout lines at our favorite CVS yesterday (a chain of pharmacies and health-related supplies stores) I noticed three racks filled with disposable film camersa as well as several racks filled with Kodak print film of various ISO cap[abilities.

 

Film must still be selling; otherwise, the people who own CVS would no longer carry such a decent and differentiated stock. Even our grocery stores carry print film in the same checkout "goodie racks" as the magazines aimed at the young and movie/TV star-cerazed population.

[fordfanjpn]

As the OM2 users and FM2 users and AE-1 users die or go digital,

 

Oddly enough, I just went from an M8, which is now sitting mostly unused in my dry cab, to an FM and an F3. As much as I enjoy the convenience of digital, when it comes to B&W, which is mostly what I shoot, film looks much better to me (IMHO). So, here is one non-Leica user still buying film.

 

Bill

[DTD]

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As the OM2 users and FM2 users and AE-1 users die or go digital.

 

This ex-OM2 user bought an M6 :-) but the OM-1s got put in their boxes when the E-1 came out of its box and the GR-1s been joined by a GRD-2.

[Guest jimmy pro]

If the only DSLR's available were five grand you'd see a lot more serious amatures still useing film. As soon as the prices of used M8's drops into 2-grand territory, and as long as they don't all start to self-destruct, I think a large # of film-useing Leica holdouts will switch.

[cocker]

Interesting discussion.

 

As well as using my Leicas, I run film in my Rolleiflex and Mamiya Medium Format cameras (as well as an OM1) But I've now decided that my best support to the film industry is by buying large surface areas of the stuff to use in my new acquisition. It's got a huge LCD but it's not quite as bright as my M8. Perhaps Leica could put one of their upgrade sooper-dooper ones in for me.

 

Now, where does the battery go? :)

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[gesper]

While I enjoy my M8, I recently signed up for a B&W film photography class at a local art center, mainly for a refresher on the darkroom side. The rest of the class is made up entirely of high school girls, most of them using their parents' old film SLRs. The instructor is a recent graduate of the the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (grad) and Rhode Island School of Design (undergrad). She had not used a digital camera until this Spring. My daughter is taking a film photography class at her high school next semester, and my sons took it when they went there. All of this to say that there is a young generation that is voluntarily migrating to film, even though most have digital cameras (not to mention cellphone cameras). Obviously, none of them can afford Leica equipment at this point in their lives, but they will still help keep the film industry alive. Similarly, many of the younger generation continue to buy vinyl records and the younger artists continue to record them.

[JBA]

None whatsoever.

 

Just a thought I had yesterday. Leica film users are likely to be the last film users, due to their investment in glass and bodies.

 

As the OM2 users and FM2 users and AE-1 users die or go digital, M4 and R6 users could well be going strong.

 

So, in the same way that, eventually, "all" car drivers will be driving Rolls-Royces, so "all" film users will be Leica users.

 

The odds are good that at any given moment, someone somewhere in the world is shooting a picture using a Pentax K1000.

[garyp]

A local graphic art school has a photography department. They start the students out with film cameras and B&W film [shooting, devloping, etc] and then progress on to digital, photoshop and the rest.

[ErikFive]

I know more poeple using film with other cameras than Leica´s.

[haris]

If you go to APUG, you will find out that film (all types, including old and alternative processes) photography is going strong. But andybarton talked specifically about 35mm film. Even with 35mm I think Leica users will not be last one who use 35mm film. Don't forget "poor man Leica" or Voigtlaender. Or Zeiss Ikon. Those are still made new, and I think Voigtlaender will go as long as Leica, if not longer. After all, more people can use Voigtlaender simply because it is afordable to larger market, so talking about number of 35mm film users, if someone will save 35mm fil it would be them not Leica users. Simply becuse of number, nothing else. Only thing is maybe as Leica users are richer, they maybe will buy more film per individual user

[rjans]

If you go to APUG, you will find out that film (all types, including old and alternative processes) photography is going strong. But andybarton talked specifically about 35mm film. Even with 35mm I think Leica users will not be last one who use 35mm film. Don't forget "poor man Leica" or Voigtlaender. Or Zeiss Ikon. Those are still made new, and I think Voigtlaender will go as long as Leica, if not longer. After all, more people can use Voigtlaender simply because it is afordable to larger market, so talking about number of 35mm film users, if someone will save 35mm fil it would be them not Leica users. Simply becuse of number, nothing else. Only thing is maybe as Leica users are richer, they maybe will buy more film per individual user

 

I fully agree; owning a few Leica compacts (Minilux, Minilux Zoom, CM and a D-Lux 3) I have an afordable Voigtländer Bessa R2M with some CV lenses. I would prefer a Leica MP but it is 5 times more expensive than the Voigtländer and you should have something to dream about.

Looking at other forums it seems that there are still a lot of film users owning a rangefinder.

Best

[bullis]

How long will it be before the majority of 35mm film sold is to Leica users?

 

It would be interesting to see how the proportion is increasing, year on year.

Have you seen the Freestyle catalog? Every time it comes out (I think 4 times a year) there is at least one new film brand. There are also more new film cameras.

 

Part of the reason for this is the schools; a few have very foolishly got rid of their wet labs and gone completely digital, but probably most of them still offer film photo courses. While the enrollment is not as it used to be (standing room only in my school), it persists sufficiently, and the students who do enroll are very enthusiastic. It is very gratifying, actually, to hear what they have to say. Generally, there is an agreement that film and digital are NOT the same thing, but different media. It is too bad, maybe, that the mfr's (the large ones) don't recognize this, and many photographers don't either. But the students seem to understand it.

 

We are seeing very innovative products from generally smaller manufacturers. My theory about this is that as the big ones (big yellow, for the most part) abandon the market in their wild pursuit of profit regardless of the costs, it makes room for smaller companies which are more sensitive to the needs of smaller markets - such as Leica users, among others.

 

I don't think film is ever going to disappear unless we become extinct, or something like that. When offset printing was developed and pretty much universally adopted in the publishing world, intaglio, relief, and stone lithography did not disappear, but became media practiced by fewer workers, by fine art printers. Photography as we know it will likely follow suit. Along with that refinement in the market, our materials will quite possibly improve in their quality. Already, there is a much greater variety in materials and sources than ever before.

 

Of course, our materials will become more expensive, but I, for one, expect to pay the price even though I might complain about it. Also, the prices will most likely be moderated by competition among the many more producers. After all, Kodak could set the prices because they were the 800 pound gorilla. Now, they are a small player, like everyone else, and if they can't compete or it ceases to be worth it for them, they will pull out.

 

It is really too bad, though, that we've lost some of the more interesting materials. Panatomic X anyone? Super XX? 2475 recording film? Aero infrared in 70mm? But, hey, Adox is back!

[peterv]

That's interesting bullis,

 

I don't think film is ever going to disappear either. I started with an M8, after just five months I bought an MP and last winter an extra M7 and also a wonderful MDa from the sixties.

Now I find myself using my film M's more then the M8. I guess the film-look is much more pleasing to my eyes.

 

I'm curious to now what is innovative about these new films you mentioned.

How come these small new filmstock manufacturers can come up with innovative film whilst they have much smaller R & D budgets?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[cocker]

That's interesting bullis,

 

I don't think film is ever going to disappear either. I started with an M8, after just five months I bought an MP and last winter an extra M7 and also a wonderful MDa from the sixties.

Now I find myself using my film M's more then the M8. I guess the film-look is much more pleasing to my eyes.

 

I'm curious to now what is innovative about these new films you mentioned.

How come these small new filmstock manufacturers can come up with innovative film whilst they have much smaller R & D budgets?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

Peter - your experience exactly mirrors mine. After using film - 35mm and medium Format - for nearly 40 years I switched to digital and sold my cameras and binned most of my darkroom kit. I used digital Nikon SLRs and eventually bought an M8. Soon after I found myself with an MP, an M2 and a III (and several Rolleiflexes) and using film more than ever!! My latest film adventure is in 5 x 4!!

 

My M8 still gets good use and I think its an excellent camera but I'm also back to my real love of film.

[evanweb23]

That's a good point. But I still run film though my Rolleiflex's as well.

 

I just hope they don't stop making Tri-X

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[fotohuis]

i have just started buying 35mm films, because i quit digital camera and give it away and bought brand new m7. before with DSLR I felt i did not take picture, i just consume photography as we consume the other good things in our lives (shoot it, check it, shoot it check it, dont like it? delete it!! so what is the result? what have i challenged? NOTHING).

 

Unfortunately not too many people have done the same action. But I have the same feeling when shooting digital. In general each year the decrease is about 25-30% in film business in Europe. However it seems to be that B&W is going to stabilize now.

 

Still a huge amount of different films on the market. You can load your M with slide film iso 50-400, even B&W slide film is still available.

Negative iso 25-3200, ortho, infra red, tech pan, micro film, classical type film, T grain type.

 

Some continents are still running mainly on film (Africa, South America) and some industry so the comming years there will be still some film left.

However not enough market to keep so many multinationals in life so a complete reconstructioning is necessary. I am sure we will loose some more analog manufacturers in the near future.