echorec Posted March 18, 2008 Share #1 Posted March 18, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, could anyone here show me a picture of the early 11817 with the knurled focusing ring? I´d like to know how it looks but have not found any pictures on the net. Thanks, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 Hi echorec, Take a look here Summicron 11817 with knurled ring?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted March 18, 2008 Share #2 Posted March 18, 2008 Courtesy of James Lager... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! One day, a respectable dealer told me that 11817 is "the best of Cron 50s..." : no direct proof, personally... Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! One day, a respectable dealer told me that 11817 is "the best of Cron 50s..." : no direct proof, personally... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/48244-summicron-11817-with-knurled-ring/?do=findComment&comment=514406'>More sharing options...
echorec Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted March 18, 2008 Thank you Luigi, it does look nice. I guess they are super rare and hard to find? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 18, 2008 Share #4 Posted March 18, 2008 One day, a respectable dealer told me that 11817 is "the best of Cron 50s..." : no direct proof, personally... I have the collapsible, dual range and current version of the Cron (in M and R mount). All have been serviced by Leica, so they are in tip top shape and it's a fair comparison. Without a doubt the latest incarnation is the sharpest. Even at f2 the v4 Summicron puts nearly all other lenses to shame. Truly a great lens. But IMO, the Dual Range / Rigid (same optical formula) produces the best looking images of the three. At f2 it is very good and past f4 extremely sharp. But it has a touch of glow; a low level blooming among the high frequency detail that works magic in black and white. The DR / Rigid truly is one of the best lenses Leica ever made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 18, 2008 Share #5 Posted March 18, 2008 Thank you Luigi, it does look nice. I guess they are super rare and hard to find? This may be old news to you, but anyhow.... This lens is often referred to as the Summicron 'Rigid'. The Rigid and Summicorn Dual Range share the same optical formula and perform identical. The difference is in the mounts. The Dual Range came with a set of clip on goggles (parallax correction in close focus mode). The lens could be switched in to 'macro' mode that allowed focus as close as 19-20 inches (about 45cm). Basically think of it as a Summicorn Rigid with a built in extension tube. It's a real Rube Goldberg contraption, but it actually works surprisingly well. The Rigid can focus as close as 1 meter. Examples of the Rigid and Dual Range in chrome are not exactly rare, although it is getting more difficult to find very clean examples. The coatings are soft and the lens is usually found with wipe marks. But any Rigid or Dual range in a black paint or black anodized finish is rare and valuable. Apparently these were mostly sold to news shooters. The black paint version varies in appearance. Some had black paint applied directly to the unfinished brass, but there reportedly are also examples, where the paint has been applied directly on to the chrome. Somehow I have a difficult time imagining anyone at Leica in the 1960's adopting such a hack technique, but who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 19, 2008 Share #6 Posted March 19, 2008 Uhm, I think that there is a little confusion on the Summicrons we are speaking of : Gunnar's first question was about the 11817 Summicron : this is not the version which had also the "Dual Range" variant... 11817 has a new optical design (6 elements) while the first design was of 7 elements, and has been mounted on 3 kinds of barrels : collapsible - rigid - rigid "Dual Range" , same basic design but different formulas. First design 7 elements -mounted on 11118 (rigid - chrome and few black) 11918 (Dual Range - chrome) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 11118 is surely rare in black finish...a superfine collectible. Second design 6 elements mounted on 11817 (rigid - black only) the 11817 started in 1968-69 at #2.269.251 : focuses to 28"/70cm and, in general, is NOT rare (10 years in pricelist), but the first variant, with the knurled focusing ring is surely uncommon...Lager's pict is of one from the first batches (#2.269.508). I don't know when the finishing changed its style... I think someone here can know something more about... Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 11118 is surely rare in black finish...a superfine collectible. Second design 6 elements mounted on 11817 (rigid - black only) the 11817 started in 1968-69 at #2.269.251 : focuses to 28"/70cm and, in general, is NOT rare (10 years in pricelist), but the first variant, with the knurled focusing ring is surely uncommon...Lager's pict is of one from the first batches (#2.269.508). I don't know when the finishing changed its style... I think someone here can know something more about... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/48244-summicron-11817-with-knurled-ring/?do=findComment&comment=514607'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 19, 2008 Share #7 Posted March 19, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just to complete the Summicrons 50 saga ... as I said, the 6 elem. design I quoted above lasted for 10 years, to 1979, then a new design appeared : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/48244-summicron-11817-with-knurled-ring/?do=findComment&comment=514611'>More sharing options...
echorec Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted March 19, 2008 Thanks for the extra info Luigi! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 20, 2008 Share #9 Posted March 20, 2008 Ok, I'm confused. In the Lager picture, is that an oddball Rigid or version3 with a curled focus ring? It's missing the 'skirt' above the mount and the aperture ring is different from a standard Rigid...so it's a version 3, correct? 1953 Collapsible Summicron 2/50, (version 1) Seven element, four groups 1957 Rigid / Dual Range Summicron (version 2) Seven elements, four groups, similar but not identical to the collapsible formula. 1969 Summicron 2/50, (version 3) Six elements 1979 Summicron 2/50 (version 4. M and R formula is virtually identical) Six elements, but different than version 3. This lens came in at least three different styles. a) Clip on hood and close focus to 1 meter Built in collapsible hood, focus to 70cm. c) 50th Anniversary model in 'vintage' look mount, 70cm close focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 20, 2008 Share #10 Posted March 20, 2008 ...perfect, thrid ! and let's mention also the " Summitar * " (is a Summicron 7 el.) and the "Compur Summicron" !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted March 21, 2008 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2008 While we are on Summicrons- If anyone has information regarding the color of the coatings, I'd be interested in hearing it. I recently picked up a IIIf with with Collapsible Summicron in the 104x range. The coatings are all yellow- not blue reflections that I'm used to seeing in the later collapsible Summicrons. Commas are used in the F-stop rather than decimal points, "F2,8" etc. And the construction is "ever-so-slightly" different. Such as the F-Stop indicator comes off with the front optics module. On the later Collapsible Summicron, it stays on the lens when the front section is removed. Test roll looks great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crm.ecosse Posted March 21, 2008 Share #12 Posted March 21, 2008 Hi, could anyone here show me a picture of the early 11817 with the knurled focusing ring? I´d like to know how it looks but have not found any pictures on the net. Thanks, There are 4 excellent photographs of an early (1968) 11817 Summicron on the 'Westlicht' Leica Shop web-site see: https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/summicron-11817-250mm-p-275.html Best regards crm.ecosse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
echorec Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 21, 2008 Share #14 Posted March 21, 2008 There are 4 excellent photographs of an early (1968) 11817 Summicron on the 'Westlicht' Leica Shop web-site see: https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/summicron-11817-250mm-p-275.html Best regards crm.ecosse Very interesting. I've never seen one of these, with the curled ring. thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 21, 2008 Share #15 Posted March 21, 2008 There are 4 excellent photographs of an early (1968) 11817 Summicron on the 'Westlicht' Leica Shop web-site see: https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/summicron-11817-250mm-p-275.html Best regards crm.ecosse Very fine !!! And the price... well, not obscene, I'd say... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 25, 2008 Share #16 Posted March 25, 2008 The coatings are all yellow- not blue reflections that I'm used to seeing in the later collapsible Summicrons. Yes, early Summicrons of the first version had yellowish coatings, later ones are blueish. Optically, however, there should not be any noticeable difference between those. Stopped down to about 4, the lens even today is a very good performer. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 25, 2008 Share #17 Posted March 25, 2008 While we are on Summicrons- If anyone has information regarding the color of the coatings, I'd be interested in hearing it. I recently picked up a IIIf with with Collapsible Summicron in the 104x range. The coatings are all yellow- not blue reflections that I'm used to seeing in the later collapsible Summicrons. Commas are used in the F-stop rather than decimal points, "F2,8" etc. And the construction is "ever-so-slightly" different. Such as the F-Stop indicator comes off with the front optics module. On the later Collapsible Summicron, it stays on the lens when the front section is removed. Test roll looks great! This is known as the "radioactive coating" owing to the materials that were used (not only by Leitz) at that times ... some threads on it can be found in the forum, and one, recent, quoted also the effective radioactivity values measured on some various lenses; the conclusion was that the issue was real, but with no practical risk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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