Space Shuttle Launch: My M8 Really Let Me Down

[photolandscape]

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I just spent $1000 and dozens of hours traveling across the U.S. to view and photograph NASA's launch of the space shuttle, mission STS-123, that lifted off this morning at 2:28 a.m. It's been something I've wanted to see and photograph since 1980.

 

On the positive side, I got there 6 hours before launch, found a great spot with a clear view across the Banana River. With Gary Rothstein's good advice, I had a solid grasp on what to expect, which lens to use (chose the CV15 to try a 45 second exposure, showing the shuttle streaking in a big arch across the night sky). The shuttle didn't disappoint. At 2:28 a.m., the sky lit up and off it went. A gorgeous sight.

 

I tried several preliminary shots (all fine), removed my IR filter, set my exposure, set the shutter to B. Tried a few more test shots--all great.

 

So, I pressed the plunger on my cable release. Held it 45 seconds, and released. Instead of seeing the red LED announce that my newly captured image was in process, other than hearing the shutter close again, nothing happened. I was so disappointed I can't put it into words. One shot at it, and the camera failed miserably. I had used it all day without fail. I took the (fresh) battery out, and put it back in. Still nothing--though it was fully charged. Removed and reinserted the same battery. Nothing. Got back to the hotel and inserted my other battery, and now it works. Go figure.

 

The M8 is my second one. Bought it refurbished. Only has 500 or so shutter actuations. It's a pretty early example of the M8 going by the serial number--#17XX. I was told it had the "fix" early on, but now I wonder. Beyond that, what else could be wrong here? The battery?

 

In the end, what really bothers me is I've read dozens of similar accounts in this forum. After a year and a half, this sort of sudden death syndrome seems to continue. Why can't Leica come up with a fix for it? Do they know what to do about it? I have been a great fan of the M8, but now I guess I need to run out and get a Canon G9 (all I can afford at the moment) or similar camera to have available as a backup--after spending more than $10,000 for my M8, batteries, lenses, etc. That doesn't feel right.

 

Sorry for venting.

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[dalippe]

I just spent $1000 and dozens of hours traveling across the U.S. to view and photograph NASA's launch of the space shuttle, mission STS-123, that lifted off this morning at 2:28 a.m. It's been something I've wanted to see and photograph since 1980.

 

On the positive side, I got there 6 hours before launch, found a great spot with a clear view across the Banana River. With Gary Rothstein's good advice, I had a solid grasp on what to expect, which lens to use (chose the CV15 to try a 45 second exposure, showing the shuttle streaking in a big arch across the night sky). The shuttle didn't disappoint. At 2:28 a.m., the sky lit up and off it went. A gorgeous sight.

 

I tried several preliminary shots (all fine), removed my IR filter, set my exposure, set the shutter to B. Tried a few more test shots--all great.

 

So, I pressed the plunger on my cable release. Held it 45 seconds, and released. Instead of seeing the red LED announce that my newly captured image was in process, other than hearing the shutter close again, nothing happened. I was so disappointed I can't put it into words. One shot at it, and the camera failed miserably. I had used it all day without fail. I took the (fresh) battery out, and put it back in. Still nothing--though it was fully charged. Removed and reinserted the same battery. Nothing. Got back to the hotel and inserted my other battery, and now it works. Go figure.

 

The M8 is my second one. Bought it refurbished. Only has 500 or so shutter actuations. It's a pretty early example of the M8 going by the serial number--#17XX. I was told it had the "fix" early on, but now I wonder. Beyond that, what else could be wrong here? The battery?

 

In the end, what really bothers me is I've read dozens of similar accounts in this forum. After a year and a half, this sort of sudden death syndrome seems to continue. Why can't Leica come up with a fix for it? Do they know what to do about it? I have been a great fan of the M8, but now I guess I need to run out and get a Canon G9 (all I can afford at the moment) or similar camera to have available as a backup--after spending more than $10,000 for my M8, batteries, lenses, etc. That doesn't feel right.

 

Sorry for venting.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. You deserve as much sympathy as you can get!

 

I've missed some "important" shots when the M8 let me down, but never anything this big. Luckily, I didn't have to part with my DSLR gear to get the M8. So now, even though I would far prefer to use my M8, I stick with other cameras for important, fleeting moments. When I'm just out for fun and one or two missed shots won't really matter (which is most of the time for me), the M8 it is.

 

No doubt you will be told you are just unlucky, and should have your camera fixed in Germany after which it will work perfectly. My personal experience, however, tells me that Leica QC and service are far inferior to that of other high-end camera makers. Even if Leica claimed to have fixed SDS and sudden battery drainage problems on my camera, I wouldn't believe them without a couple of years of trouble free operation from my M8.

 

My advice: if you have only one chance and the photo really matters to you, leave the M8 at home. If my M8s were reliable, I might part with lots of other other gear. But they're not, so I won't.

 

David

[Hookeye]

Ouch! What a terrible moment to have your M8 fail on you. Almost unbelieavable after all the testing and preparations. Could it be that your camera had gone to "sleep" while waiting for the big moment? I have sometimes missed shots when I wait for the right moment - and then press the release on a "sleeping" camera and nothing happens of course.

[bayerische]

Sad to hear. I would have loved to witness a Space shuttle launch when I wa last in Florida in october 2007.

 

It's sad that you got let down by your M8. I wouldn't give up on it, but man I would be disappointed.

[gravastar]

Sadly I've had at least three similar failures in the 11 months I've owned the camera. Even though I purchased a second M8 as backup it obviously doesn't help with those one in a lifetime shots. I just can't rely on it for such work.

 

Symptoms have been very similar to yours. Take the camera with freshly charged battery out of the bag. Switch it on - nothing - totally unresponsive. Take out the battery and put it back in, all works again as normal. I've had a similar occurence after the camera has timed out and gone to sleep. It would not wake up with a shutter press or when switched off and on again. Removing and putting the battery back everything returned to normal.

 

These type of problems are very difficult to debug and I often wonder if it's a result of Leica using other manufacturers off the shelf standard components to build a complex system. The camera isn't truely integrated where if Leica had designed custom circuits they would know most of the idiosyncrasies of the design. You really have to know what's going on to be able to power up and power down functional blocks and get the sequencing of various signals and supplies correct under all circumstances.

 

Bob.

[ken_tanaka]

I was sad to read of your disappointing experience, Steve. While I've not experienced a camera failure at a critical moment I certainly have missed one-shot opportunities due to my brain or reflexes failing. I guess that the bright side is that shuttle launches will be repeated for a few more years and there are millions of photographs of them.

 

By no means am I wagging a finger, but I can't resist remarking that there is absolutely no way that I would rely on either of my M8s for any "one-shot" images. While I've not experienced the failures that others here have, even a casual review of the M8 accounts here and elsewhere clearly portrays a lovable-but-rather-unpredictable photographic device.

 

May your future M8 experiences (if any) be better...and be backed-up by another camera!

[odyocu]

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Very sorry to read about this misfortune.

 

I had very similar problems when I first bought the camera.

But after a few firmware upgrades, I had no such problems at all. In fact until reading the posts here, I had totally forgotten about all these.

 

In the past, when the camera was in the sleeping mode, many unexplained problems occured, which did not cure even with battery replacing etc. At that time, I had also the "Venetian blinds" effect, as well as a few other things.

 

Could the old firmware be the reason in this case too?

 

Seyhun

[earleygallery]

Bummer.

 

But as one of our other members oftens says, blink and remember. At least you were there.

 

An old box camera with some 120 neg film would have been a great choice for this assignment!

[gravastar]

................................Could the old firmware be the reason in this case too?

 

Seyhun

 

Could well be. I haven't had it happen recently, only time will tell.

 

It's a great shame there seems to be a few bugs like this remaining. I find the camera a joy to use and take it everywhere, for business and leisure. The results are second to none.

 

Bob.

[rtphotos]

 

So, I pressed the plunger on my cable release. Held it 45 seconds, and released. Instead of seeing the red LED announce that my newly captured image was in process, other than hearing the shutter close again, nothing happened.

 

 

Hi photolandscape,

 

I thought of something. You do know that after a 45 second exposure, your camera will then do a noise reduction bit and you can't do anything for the next 45 seconds, right? If you have your camera back turned off, you will not have any indication that it is counting down the seconds, not even the blinking red light.

 

Well, just in case you weren't aware of that "feature". I found that out this past New Years while taking long exposures of fireworks.

 

Sorry you missed the shot(s). Major bummer. Hope you get it the next time around.

 

rt

[Jamie Roberts]

Rtphotos--that's a very interesting conjecture... but I bet the OP didn't have the back screen turned off. You never know though, and you're right: if you didn't know it was doing dark frame subtraction you'd never suspect.

 

@ Photolandscape: can you tell me, please, what firmware version you're using? Specifically if it's the last one with the AWB fix (and the battery indicator fix)?

[markgay]

How close were you to the shuttle's 3 hydrogen-oxygen pre-burners? Surely you would have been safer using an SLR and a darned long telephoto!

 

Just trying to lighten your obvious disappointment.

 

Seriously, I've worked in television news for 20 years. If a camera is going to let you down, it always happens at the worst possible moment. Even if you CHECKED the camera two minutes before.

 

Take another camera. If you are traveling that far for the One Shot That Counts, synch them up!

 

If I was standing there, the hair on my head blasted by 400,000 lbf of thrust, I would start clicking the shutter BEFORE the crucial moment - then every second.. up to the capacity of the buffer.

 

If someone points out that the M8 buffer is limited - then I rest my case: It was not the correct camera to use exclusively on this project.

 

Mark

[Photoskeptic]

How disturbingly awful. I've said many times on this forum how reliable my M8 has been and that I've had no problems. Until yesterday. I had two horizontal green bands show up on my LCD after a shot. Only did it on one shot, but what if that shot had been a once in a lifetime image? Ouch.

[chris_tribble]

You do know that after a 45 second exposure, your camera will then do a noise reduction bit and you can't do anything for the next 45 seconds, right? If you have your camera back turned off, you will not have any indication that it is counting down the seconds, not even the blinking red light.

 

A real shame about the missed shot, but I'd bet a pound to a penny that this was the reason if the camera was working fine before and after. Important that we get this in perspective and don't compound the "M8's aren't reliable" story so that it becomes the reality...

[photolandscape]

Hi photolandscape,

 

I thought of something. You do know that after a 45 second exposure, your camera will then do a noise reduction bit and you can't do anything for the next 45 seconds, right? If you have your camera back turned off, you will not have any indication that it is counting down the seconds, not even the blinking red light.

 

Well, just in case you weren't aware of that "feature". I found that out this past New Years while taking long exposures of fireworks.

 

Sorry you missed the shot(s). Major bummer. Hope you get it the next time around.

 

rt

 

Hi, thanks for asking. Yes, I do realize that the noise reduction takes over. But everything was turned on on the back of the camera. I am positive about that based on the test shots I took a few minutes earlier, and again after I changed the battery. Thanks.

[photolandscape]

Rtphotos--that's a very interesting conjecture... but I bet the OP didn't have the back screen turned off. You never know though, and you're right: if you didn't know it was doing dark frame subtraction you'd never suspect.

 

@ Photolandscape: can you tell me, please, what firmware version you're using? Specifically if it's the last one with the AWB fix (and the battery indicator fix)?

 

Jamie, you are correct about the back screen. It was turned on. The key indicator for me was that the red led never came on as it always does as the camera processes a new image. Also, I installed FW 1.201 when it came out a couple of weeks ago. Thanks.

[girphoto]

I just spent $1000 and dozens of hours traveling across the U.S. to view and photograph NASA's launch of the space shuttle, mission STS-123, that lifted off this morning at 2:28 a.m. It's been something I've wanted to see and photograph since 1980.

 

On the positive side, I got there 6 hours before launch, found a great spot with a clear view across the Banana River. With Gary Rothstein's good advice, I had a solid grasp on what to expect, which lens to use (chose the CV15 to try a 45 second exposure, showing the shuttle streaking in a big arch across the night sky). The shuttle didn't disappoint. At 2:28 a.m., the sky lit up and off it went. A gorgeous sight.

 

I tried several preliminary shots (all fine), removed my IR filter, set my exposure, set the shutter to B. Tried a few more test shots--all great.

 

So, I pressed the plunger on my cable release. Held it 45 seconds, and released. Instead of seeing the red LED announce that my newly captured image was in process, other than hearing the shutter close again, nothing happened. I was so disappointed I can't put it into words. One shot at it, and the camera failed miserably. I had used it all day without fail. I took the (fresh) battery out, and put it back in. Still nothing--though it was fully charged. Removed and reinserted the same battery. Nothing. Got back to the hotel and inserted my other battery, and now it works. Go figure.

 

The M8 is my second one. Bought it refurbished. Only has 500 or so shutter actuations. It's a pretty early example of the M8 going by the serial number--#17XX. I was told it had the "fix" early on, but now I wonder. Beyond that, what else could be wrong here? The battery?

 

In the end, what really bothers me is I've read dozens of similar accounts in this forum. After a year and a half, this sort of sudden death syndrome seems to continue. Why can't Leica come up with a fix for it? Do they know what to do about it? I have been a great fan of the M8, but now I guess I need to run out and get a Canon G9 (all I can afford at the moment) or similar camera to have available as a backup--after spending more than $10,000 for my M8, batteries, lenses, etc. That doesn't feel right.

 

Sorry for venting.

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to hear of your problem with your shoot. I got backed up with my own work and could not get to you.

 

We put out 13 remote cameras, plus had 4 shooters including my self set up to shoot night streaks. The problem the other night, was that the cloud cover came in fast and all of our streaks, failed as well (with Canon equipment) except for one which was a streak and smoke trail into the night sky.

 

We also had three remotes that failed that night as did some other photographers located on the east side of the shuttle.

 

Thoes images that di work including my own from the roof of the VAB were impressive.

 

If I get a chance and some are interested in the images even though they were not shot with the M8 I will be happy to resize a few and post them.

I did however shoot all Monday morning during remote came check with the M8 and those images were what we would expect from an M8 shoot RAW (GREAT).

 

Hope you get a chance to do a day launch at some time, I am sure that you will have a MUCH better take.

Talk to you soon

Best

Gary

Gary I. Rothstein, Photography

[calvinboy24]

Am I stating the obvious (sorry if I am), but it sounds like the battery died while in noise reduction and processing/buffering of the image. The previous test shots (however few they may have been) may have drained the battery significantly enough by the time you took your "money shot", the battery fully drained.

 

It sounds like all of these like-problems are battery-related, or at least in how the M8 uses its power. If Leica does investigate this, I can't imagine the type of research they'd have to perform to see how much power is used for each and every function and iteration of the M8.

 

Sorry to hear about the lost opportunity. I made a comment in another post about folks missing shots due to equipment failure, its entirely frustrating but you can't let it get to you. It sucks, but unfortunately not something that was anticipated. I'm paranoid enough that my back hurts because in important shoots, I will load up all my equipment and tote it on my back... just in case...

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[Guest rweisz]

If a camera is going to let you down, it always happens at the worst possible moment. Even if you CHECKED the camera two minutes before.

 

I hear that!

 

Take another camera. If you are traveling that far for the One Shot That Counts, synch them up!

 

Ditto. Two cameras on a double head or two tripods, one cable release in each hand. No elaborate equipment needed. Obviously you aren't going to hold a camera in each hand at a wedding shoot taking simultaneous exposures. But a situation like this, it's very doable and reasonable without that much fuss.

[robsteve]

I would say your battery went dead. I would mark that battery and try some deep discharge cycles with it to see if you can get the capacity back. In the future, I would put a fresh battery in just prior to critical shot.