smokysun Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share #21 Posted February 25, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) there is a bit of deja vu to this for me. when i first started doing computer art/photography work i bought all the early versions of corel painter. in 2003 corel was sold to a private company. all the people who'd owned painter, written books about it, etc. went into a tailspin of speculation and despair. well, since then, corel has bought win dvd, ulead, jasc, and perhaps more. painter is now in its tenth incarnation and as popular with artists as ever. here's a short version of the turnaround: Corel Perfects Turnaround - IT Channel - IT Channel News by CRN and VARBusiness and that was in 2005. bill and his think tank group might be interested. ps. don't know what happened to lesson five but in an american election year it might be: don't believe what you read, see, or hear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2008 Posted February 25, 2008 Hi smokysun, Take a look here new start: leica vs. harley davidson. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
smokysun Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share #22 Posted February 25, 2008 ps. i know everyone has read this, but a review might be good. it's dr. kaufmann's vision for the company. i doubt if he has changed it. Chairman Leica Camera looks to me like he sees a lot of prestige himself in owning leica and continuing its traditions. also steven lee served a year on the board before being appointed ceo. that seems a fairly long trial period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 25, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 25, 2008 looks to me like he sees a lot of prestige himself in owning leica and continuing its traditions .....or too much prestige in himself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted February 25, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 25, 2008 Out of intersts sake, Smokey, do you know where the "toolbar" and "dockers" lock in place is. I tend to get busy with the Wacom and wind up dragging my customisation about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted February 25, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 25, 2008 This I like, even though I own a 916 and am very happy with it. Maybe we need a similar M8 poster. Leica M8 makes focussing adjustment a way of life:D Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/46177-new-start-leica-vs-harley-davidson/?do=findComment&comment=492567'>More sharing options...
chilihead Posted February 25, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 25, 2008 Most Harley owners spend spend about $50,000.00+ US dollars on their bikes and accessories, including everything from leather clothes to GPS units, and then, maybe, just maybe, they wait for a warm and sunny day (weekend) start it up and go a couple K for an ice cream, ( if the weather and roads are perfect) turn around and take the bike home where it sits, all winter, unused. (you have to insure a motorcycle twelve months a year in Canada) Oh fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted February 25, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 25, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ps. i know everyone has read this, but a review might be good. it's dr. kaufmann's vision for the company. i doubt if he has changed it. Chairman Leica Camera looks to me like he sees a lot of prestige himself in owning leica and continuing its traditions. also steven lee served a year on the board before being appointed ceo. that seems a fairly long trial period. Actually Lee was only on the board two months before being made CEO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted February 25, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 25, 2008 ps. i know everyone has read this, but a review might be good. it's dr. kaufmann's vision for the company. i doubt if he has changed it. Chairman Leica Camera I have no idea how I missed it, but I've never seen this before. Truly amazing information: "a new M is being developed which is aimed at being less expensive and less technical (expertise) than the current M... In addition to all this, about 20+ new lens are being developed." So many times the possibility of a 'cut-down' M has been debated on the forum, and generally dismissed as impossible. I can't believe Dr Kaufman has presented the plan it himself! Thanks for this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNF Posted February 25, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 25, 2008 I posted this route on RFF on 22 Feb: Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Steven K. Lee gone ! Obsolete technology Rabid loyal fan base History Expensive Made where it all started A dwarf compared to other industy players As much as I dislike Harley Davidson and it's culture, this is really more the model that Leica should examine. There is a place for Leica in a guise close to what they now have. Apparently the dealer network is strong and loyal as much as the customers. The thing that strikes me, is that a significant portion of the people that call themselves "Leica customers", are 2nd/3rd/4th... hand buyers - an area where Lee claimed that the market does 4$ for every 1$ that Leica does. These people are really not Leica customers. (They buy the culture, but by definition are not Leica customers.) This is why the focus switched to getting cameras and lenses back to Solms - as a service center. At least they try to make these 2nd/3rd/4th/5th hand buyers a true Leica customer. I think the company, under deep pocketed private ownership, is the best way for them to grow and produce products that are deemed desirable. Once a path has been charted, under strong private leadership, they can target to again be listed. -- I know Sgr.Minoli and putting him in place, levered by HMD Partners would be a step in the right direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 25, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 25, 2008 The thing that strikes me, is that a significant portion of the people that call themselves "Leica customers", are 2nd/3rd/4th... hand buyers - an area where Lee claimed that the market does 4$ for every 1$ that Leica does. These people are really not Leica customers. (They buy the culture, but by definition are not Leica customers.) Welcome, BNF. Interesting way to introduce yourself here. I think you miss the point in the passage I have snipped from your post. Secondhand Leica ownership offers an "on ramp", as do the PanaLeica digitals. The benefit of a lower cost of entry to own a real Leica has a positive impact on the brand as a whole. My first Leica was a secondhand M6. Since then I have bought and sold many other Leica lenses and bodies secondhand, but I have also bought new an M7, a CM, and 50, 90 and 135mm lenses, as well as grips, viewfinder magnifiers, and assorted other bits and pieces. If I had not dipped my toe into the water with something affordable, I very much doubt that I would have ever jumped straight to a brand new camera. The leica ownership - whether they have bought new or secondhand - are part of the Leica ecosystem that includes new and secondhand dealers, repairers and restorers, manufacturers of add-ons and accessories, reviewers, authors, oh, and of course the company itself. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdi Posted February 26, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 26, 2008 HDs don't cost 5x the nearest competitor... HUH? Heck they don't... Unless you get a base model Sportster... Well they don't! They are actually quite reasonable. A base Sportster is cheaper than any BMW, Triumph, or Ducati. 2008 base prices for a few bikes, to give you an idea - of course nothing made now is really comparable to a Harley : HD Electraglide Classic - -$18,695 (top of the line touring bike ) Triumph Rocket 3 classic - $15,699 BMW R1200RT -$16,800 (lower end of the touring bikes) Suzuki Boulevard - $14,999 Ducati Desmo RR - $72,500 (Top of the line for fast touring ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdi Posted February 26, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 26, 2008 Most Harley owners spend spend about $50,000.00+ US dollars on their bikes and accessories, including everything from leather clothes to GPS units, and then, maybe, just maybe, they wait for a warm and sunny day (weekend) start it up and go a couple K for an ice cream, ( if the weather and roads are perfect) turn around and take the bike home where it sits, all winter, unused. (you have to insure a motorcycle twelve months a year in Canada) Oh fun! Sheeshhh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokysun Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share #33 Posted February 26, 2008 polaroid 2001: Polaroid Files for Bankruptcy Protection: Digital Photography Review polaroid 2008: International Consumer Electronics Show – January 2008 Polaroid put an exclamation point on its transformation from an instant film company to a leading consumer electronics company at CES in Las Vegas this year. With its 7,000 plus square foot booth, Polaroid showcased new designs for digital cameras, LCD TVs, portable photo frames, and other products. Plus, media from all over the world focused their spotlights on Polaroid for the unveiling of its newest products, the Freescape™ Digital Media Exchange and the Digital Instant Mobile Photo Printer. Click here for more information on Polaroid at CES '08. 2008 the last year for polaroid instant film. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/46177-new-start-leica-vs-harley-davidson/?do=findComment&comment=493376'>More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 26, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 26, 2008 What Polaroid did is rebrand a number of items to sell under their name. (Maybe they developed some items too.) So now there are a lot of products that are quite different form what Polaroid was traditonally known for but they seem to be doing well as a marketing company. Are you suggesting that Leica broaden the scope of items carrying its name? I always wondered why Leica didn't do more to try to capitalize off of the name. Unless Leica Camera does not have the right from Donaher Corp. to use the name this way. Consider that Porsche Design puts its name on sunglasses, mobile phones, and hard drives. I know Leica rebadged Panasonic cameras but surely there are other opportunities. I was thinking along the lines of high end LCD monitors targeting photographers and designers. It could include color calibration hardware and software. Considering that some LaCie models are already rebadged NECs, why not? And lots of companies rebadged or included the Gretag calibrators. Several brands of high end monitors buy their panels from Samsung, Hitachi, L.G. Phillips, and others. Maybe advance the relationship with Panasonic in this direction. Perhaps cross license a line of quality inkjet printers that target photographers. Or have a more ambitious goal to introduce a line of monitors, printers, calibrators, inks, and paper that are all matched to each other with "turn-key" color management. (Some new monitors can display Adobe 98 RGB gamut so there are new opportunities for wide gamut gear if it is packaged and marketed well.) Maybe Panasonic or HP could pull all of this together as their high end "Leica" line and do most of the work to get it out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 26, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 26, 2008 I like the idea of Leica branded sunglasses ... surely that's great for someone who needs a photographer's vision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 26, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 26, 2008 with or without UV/IR filters ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrizzlie Posted February 26, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 26, 2008 Just a few thoughts: Firstly, Leica is not a motorcycle company - there are some slight differences in technology and requirements imposed on the product (e.g. legally). Secondly, H-D achieved a major turnaround in the late 1980s from capitalising on the new management's passion and insight, that some support from Porsche on developing the new EVO engine might help fix some reliability issues (that mainly were perceptual rather than real). The new engine was launched in 1983, the turnaround fully kicked in as late as 1993, when the 1994 production virtually sold out in August '93. By then, H-D said: "We sell a lifestyle. The Motorcycle goes with it for free." [Can Leica stand another 10 years, assuming there's a 'silver bullet' available today? And to what end could a camera dominate the lifestyle of a reasonable target group?] Thirdly, as markets change over time, H-D currently experiences massive pressure on sales and margins. Motorcycling is no longer en vogue for the general (wealthy) crowd - gradually narrowing the clientele to die-hards and late adopters. [in fact, this might bear some similarities for Leica: Mechanical or optical excellence becomes secondary in mass markets with ubiquitous cheap - and software self-correcting - applications. Trends more point to convenience rather than excitement - or consume rather than produce] Apart from that, H-D - to my knowledge - at any given time after WW2 sold more units per year than Leica did and does in ten. From a brand perspective, H-D capitalises on one of the most recognised brands (positively as well as negatively) across a broad public while Leica is hardly known beyond the community of people interested in photography. There's a few other ramifications that make it hard for me to believe, that H-D might be a suitable role model for Leica. In my view, Mr. Kaufmann (and just he plus maybe some people he explicitly appoints or contracts for that part) will need to find the answer to three questions: 1) What does Leica stand for today? Or alternately: What is the core of the Leica brand and how does this materialise in the market? 2) Where does he want it to be in 2-5-10 years from now? Or alternately: What is Leica's share (or niche) of the market and what are the distinct product features to serve this? 3) What needs to be done to get there? Or alternately: What capabilities does Leica AG need to have and evolve over time to build, sustain, and grow their business profitably? Christian Oh, by the way: I do shoot Leica M (among other brands), ride Harleys since the mid 1980s (no other brand), and consult High Tech companies to be successful for the past 16 years. Just to clarify that I might have a slight idea of what I'm writing about... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 26, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 26, 2008 Comparing Leica to Harley made me ROTFLMAO. Harley sells to municipal police departments. Harley's are solid, ride-em-hard-to-hell-and-back bikes today, not just lipservice to something they were 40 years ago, not just expensive but technologically outdated and mechanically unreliable bikes for rich lawyers and dentists pretending they're Hell's Angels on weekends. In other words, Harley walks the walk while Leica talks the talk. Leica's problem isn't lack of image, it's that they're 90% image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadHahn Posted February 26, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 26, 2008 I posted this route on RFF on 22 Feb: Rangefinderforum.com - View Single Post - Steven K. Lee gone ! The thing that strikes me, is that a significant portion of the people that call themselves "Leica customers", are 2nd/3rd/4th... hand buyers - an area where Lee claimed that the market does 4$ for every 1$ that Leica does. These people are really not Leica customers. (They buy the culture, but by definition are not Leica customers.) This is why the focus switched to getting cameras and lenses back to Solms - as a service center. At least they try to make these 2nd/3rd/4th/5th hand buyers a true Leica customer. Perhaps Leica should do like Ferrari. They steer first time buyers into a used Ferrari and put their name on a list for a new one. Leica dealers should take in used cameras, send them off to be CLA'd and sell them at a premium with a good warranty. The customer would be able to get their foot in the Leica door and the company would make money from the used market. Chad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Flatline Posted February 26, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 26, 2008 OMG, for the first time I see why some people dislike Leica people so much, even wíthin the community. I canNOT stand Harley-Davidson and all that fake wannabe outlaw "different - but just different like everyone else" BULLSH!T...HD is such crap. Full of dentists and lawyers who think they're different and rebelious and somehow better with their chaps and tassles and leather black/orange BLAH ICANNOTSTANDHARLEYDAVIDSONANDALLTHEPEOPLEWHOSUCKTHATSTUPIDDAYTONASTURGISOUTLAWFAKETHOUSANDDOLLARWANNABEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Phew. Yeah, I guess it's possible to see Leica in the same light. Eww.... I think I need to go take a shower. I never thought anyone might look at me and my camera the same way I look at one of those chrome-leather-BS machines.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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