Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #201 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ah i 'm done here , going home. have a nice weekend. To many trolls here anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here Steven K.Lee gone. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #202 Posted February 23, 2008 BTW Imants this is your last holdout on where you are not banned . Thread lightly. LOL unfortunatly for you this is not true.......... temper temper now don't chuck a wobbly.........goodnight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #203 Posted February 23, 2008 Let's not turn this thread into a dog fight ... all we need is a detective, or crystal ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. white Posted February 23, 2008 Share #204 Posted February 23, 2008 Wow, this thread features more bitch-slapping than season 3 of Desperate Housewives! It certainly does reveal how much discontent there is with Leica's service, as well as the darker sides of many contributors to the forum. I, for one, have added a couple of names to my ignore list today. Whatever the reasons for Mr. Lee's dismissal, I'd like to see Leica succeed at truly delivering on their legacy in the digital age and further. -J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted February 23, 2008 Share #205 Posted February 23, 2008 never really understood the reasoning behind hiring mr. lee, yet i know people who know him and claim he was a pretty good guy. i know there are so many people who love the r system. it is amazing if not rather irrelevant, though, in today's photographic environment. honestly, i think leica should just concentrate on what they're famous for: making m cameras and the amazing glass which makes the m system even more amazing. i just don't see how development of a non-autofocus slr system is relevant. there's no way it will make money. all of that said ... if r glass was ever made to fit my eos1dsm3 ... ah ... i'd order two straight away. at the very least ... i hope leica succeeds as a company ... so i can always get parts and repairs for my mp! This is the kind of arrogance, born of ignorance, that is so destructive in the art world. Glad this young man isn't making any important decisions. This digital M-centric view of Leica is symptomatic of the ADD fueled, impluse driven whims of those that can't see the forrest for the trees. Betting the company exclusively on a digital M will drive Leica out of business. They will never compete with the scale of Japan's photographic industries, nor of the nascant photo-optic industry in China. The M8 is a dead end product. Leica needs a full frame digital camera that can remain viable between the Hasselblads and the Cannons. Leica will never be a real consumer product. It remains an object of desire, a tool of trade and art. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted February 23, 2008 Share #206 Posted February 23, 2008 ....don't you love a juicy .... coup d'état... ...at least no one was executed:p... ..and my name is Edward S. Isaacs... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted February 23, 2008 Share #207 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wonder if Mr. Lee will still take part in Leica Day? JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Guinto Posted February 23, 2008 Share #208 Posted February 23, 2008 Hope I do not get a lot of flak for this. I brought my Digilux 3 with the kit lens to India last November and I came home with fantastic pictures. Earlier, I considered bringing my M8 but friends cautioned me with horror stories and an M8 is a camera I can ill afford to lose. So, there it is, I brought the D3 and up to now I am wowing friends and acquaintances. Miguel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Edwards Posted February 23, 2008 Share #209 Posted February 23, 2008 I don't want to speculate recklessly because I have no internal knowledge nor does anyone else here. I will admit now, that it surprised me very much that Dr. Kaufmann hired an American, and an Asian-American to boot, to run a small-town German company. I don't mean to imply that all Germans are nationalistic and racist. Neither are all Americans but coming from a small-town in the mid-south region of the USA, a guy like Lee would run into some friction being the boss, as shameful and unfortunate as that is. As for how this will impact the company, time will tell. A lot will depend on who Dr. Kaufmann hires to fill Lee's shoes...unless he's planning to do it himself. One thing is clear to me, and that is that it would be in Leica's best interest if this time Leica plays a vocal role in quashing internet rumors and negative speculation, unlike the way they've handled them in the recent past. I think we loyal customers deserve to be kept in the loop, and not third-party through some volunteer beta tester with a bad temper. ...some un-substantiated deductive reasoning (all conjecture)...america = world's largest market...best-buy = largest us electronics retailer...panasonic = japanese electronics giant with middle of road products (tho the digi1, 2, 3, v-lux1 and d-lux 3 and no slouches by any means)...steven lee = asian american = assumed relationship with panasonic execs...corporate high end-low end strategy (like the former leica jv with leupold)...on paper a brilliant path to profitability (IQ approach)...in reality, the human element and tradition count more for a quintessential european company (EQ approach)...= steven lee as ceo casualty = new strategy that focuses more on high-end approach...fwiw and imho.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #210 Posted February 23, 2008 beep beep+boing boing+lpzgfr...eeeeehup (IQ approach)...= steven igi1, 2, 3, v-lux1 and .....luv it:cool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #211 Posted February 23, 2008 ....don't you love a juicy ....coup d'état... The German web site Photoscala has more on it: So wurden nach unseren Informationen Mitte 2007 mindestens sechs Mitarbeiter aus dem mittleren Management entlassen, zum Teil wurde ihnen fristlos, zum Teil fristgerecht zum Jahresende, gekündigt. Das betraf leitende Positionen in Forschung, Produktion, Optik und Kommunikation. Und Leica Pressechef Gero Furchheim verschwand im Laufe des Jahres 2007 stillschweigend von der Bühne - Differenzen um die Leica World, lange überfällig, danneingestellt, waren wohl der vorgeschobene Grund. So Lee fired 6 Leica employees in the mid-level management in 2007, from production, research, optics to communications ... perhaps those who felt their jobs in limbo decided to fight for their last chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemalk Posted February 23, 2008 Share #212 Posted February 23, 2008 Hope I do not get a lot of flak for this. I brought my Digilux 3 with the kit lens to India last November and I came home with fantastic pictures. Earlier, I considered bringing my M8 but friends cautioned me with horror stories and an M8 is a camera I can ill afford to lose. So, there it is, I brought the D3 and up to now I am wowing friends and acquaintances. Miguel Miguel - Don't let the "true" Leica snobs get you down. The Digilux is a great DSLR. And the M8 is a fantastic Digital Rangefinder. They have different strengths. And price points. But the image is what matters. Glad you got your fantastic shots. Please feel free to post them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted February 23, 2008 Share #213 Posted February 23, 2008 The German web site Photoscala has more on it: So Lee fired 6 Leica employees in the mid-level management in 2007, from production, research, optics to communications ... perhaps those who felt their jobs in limbo decided to fight for their last chance. Ohhh! ...my guess was right, This has everything to do with boss-employee relations culture, Mr. Lee went to work for Leica with his corporate mentality that permeates in the new corporate structure that does not take into account the human factor. Instead of trying to work things out, he just fired people as if they were just numbers....and it came back to bite him in the ass:D.... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #214 Posted February 23, 2008 he just fired people as if they were just numbers....and it came back to bite him in the ass:D.... Now you could understand why your cameras and lenses sit there without being paid attention when everybody was counting their days ... my pure speculation anyways, I offer my apologies if anybody is offended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 23, 2008 Share #215 Posted February 23, 2008 ...Even though the current prices of Leica cameras and lenses have ascended to inhabit the exosphere, it is not the rich and fabulous that will ensure Leica's survival. It is the photographer who is willing to sacrifice to own a Leica camera, the photojournalist who works a second job and saves his/her money for years in order to afford a Leica, the imagemaker who is passionate and driven to pursue excellence in his/her art and endures the financial hardship that comes with acquiring Leica cameras and lenses who will be this company's salvation - or their undoing. Quite simply, the rich and fabulous don't give a rat's ass if Leica lives or dies. Photographers, however, do care about Leica's fate; we cannot imagine a world without Leica. I understand where you are coming from but I think that while a number of pros still use Leicas, starting some time ago, the company became dependent on well heeled buyers. (Mostly enthusiasts.) Maybe this was the only way that Leica could stick to its traditional manufacturing approach. I meet with all kinds of professional photographers on a regular basis and rarely find any (young or old) who aspire to buy the M8. And I only personally know one photographer who has owned an M8. Despite the high prices, many can easily afford it without taking out a second job or saving for years. (If you are that poor you probably shouldn't be using the money for a camera anyway.) With all due respect to many well made arguments to the contrary, it often comes down to performance, versatility, professional support, and value for the money vs. the competition. And for many pros, Leica is not really ahead on any of these aspects. So even many of those who buy an M8 do it as a "2nd" system rather than as something they "must" have. I think the problems for Leica are much deeper... While many have suggestions of what they'd like to see from Leica, it is hard to know what is even doable. And I am certainly not equipped to provide a solution. But this is one entertaining site! (Kind of like a photo industry soap opera... how will it turn out?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted February 23, 2008 Share #216 Posted February 23, 2008 Without straying into liabless territory, I agree with the broad suggestion of Alessandro that the tone of Lee's departure indicates something far more immediate and serious than a difference of opinion about strategy, concerns with execution or marketing or a change of direction- all these agendas could have been served by a more concilliatory press release. It feels like something has happened or is about to happen that makes Lees continuing involvement at Leica impossible. And that they moved first. Was he about to quit? Whistleblow? Move to a direct competitor? I think we have a good chance of finding out soon. Dan I wouldn't read much into this. The press release was probably translated to English by a German. Also, similar German press releases of senior management changes often tend to have a harsh tone in English, even when announcing an amiable exit. But at this point the reasons for Lee's exit are irrelevant to Leica's future. We shall see what we shall see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic Posted February 23, 2008 Share #217 Posted February 23, 2008 "10 years of Leica World - a great success and an opportunity to thank you, dear readers! Special thanks also to the chief-editor, Hans-Michael Koetzle and the whole team. Outstanding in picture and text, design and print, Leica World aimed to achieve the high standard of international Leica photography. The award-winning cultural magazine was dedicated to all areas of Leica photography. However, with the existing concept of Leica World we have only reached a limited circle of readers so far. Leica Camera would like to extend its reach into new customers and markets and therefore intends to broaden its communication media on winning as many new friends as possible for the brand. Therefore, Leica World will not be continued in its present form. We will be happy to inform you as soon as we have developed a new customer magazine that reflects our communication policy. " """"""" Big mistake (another one) made by Mr Lee. I'm still waiting for the number 2/2007 . I paid for it, Mr Lee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted February 23, 2008 Share #218 Posted February 23, 2008 Folks, while I agree that Lee made a lot of mistakes, the biggest mistake was to hire him for this position. So the biggest mistake was by Mr. Kaufmann. He should have understood from the beginning what kind of guy Lee is. Lee only did his job as usual, which was foreseeable from all the beginning. So it is not Lee who is to blame, it is Kaufmann!!! But it is Mr. K's money so actually he can do whatever he wants to and if he completely burns it it is also ok for him. That this is not ok for Leica customers and Leica employees is a different story. And this is a very sad story. Because it shows another example of how to successfully ruin a good and traditional idea and mythos. But again, the goal of people like K. is obviously just to own such companies to write of some money and maybe have some hobby and fun same time. Shame on them! I lost lot of trust in the future of Leica and their products because of these facts and I am sure there will be lot of others here who feel the same. But finally we do not need to panic, meanwhile there are other vendor products out which are as good (or even better) than anything available from Leica - and if it is only because a lot of thins are NOT available from Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Guinto Posted February 23, 2008 Share #219 Posted February 23, 2008 Thank you Mr. lemalk for your very kind words. In reviewing my post, I think I got a bit carried out there and failed to add the necessary caveats. The pictures were fantastic in my regards. My friends and associates are ordinary folks and are no art critics. But for a 72 year old retiree, they were images I like and they like. Am willing to post some of them if I only know how. Is it the Insert Image icon? But my images have no URL. Miguel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsfield Posted February 23, 2008 Share #220 Posted February 23, 2008 I just found out the reason. He was caught having sex with the cleaning lady. And she was Austrian.. Or was it Belgian? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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