Alberhasky "test" of M8 vs. Nikon D3

[okram]

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My M8 shows comparable (in some points equal, in some better, in minor things worse)

detail resolution with my 1Ds2 with L primes.

At all ISO.

On screen and especially in print.

I will post no examples, you will have to take my word for it.

 

 

Read ReidReviews.

[Daniel Ortego]

Another view:

Not long ago, I decided to buy a new M8 and a of couple primes. At roughly 12k, I was about set. I even opted for a 1.35x Megapearls and off I went to Florida during the Christmas holidays. I returned home with depressing results as most of my files were markedly out of focus. To make things worst, I visited my favorite frame shop where I noticed a gal with some very impressive 8x10 portraits and I was shocked when she said she used a D80. More so, that she didn’t know an f/stop from a bus stop! Some of you may recall that I almost bailed out as I sold my 28-cron. I had listed my M8 but held off on my silver 50-lux because it was too good. Anyway, I went down and tested a D300 and I marveled at the auto-focus feature that was sharp as a razor. However, I noticed the files all looked quite digital and flat compared to my few keepers’ from the Leica. Likewise, I didn’t care much for the size and feel of the Nikon in my hands. I returned home and removed my M8 from the classifieds and took a chill pill. I repented for taking my Leica for granted as I realized that I was simply too hooked on the Leica format and I would simply have to learn how to adapt to the RF idiosyncrasies. I know the Nikon will provide sharply focused files without any effort whatsoever, and it will do things the M8 will never be able accomplish. On the other hand, the signature of the Leica files is unmistakable and when you nail it, the results are truly fantastic.

Regards,

[jaapv]

You're right, Daniel, it is a poor workman that blames his tools. Just keep at it, it takes time, but focussing will become instinctive.

[haroldp]

This subject is silly.

 

I use both configurations ( M8 / Sumicrom 35/2 ) and ( D3 24-70 /2.8 ) (and many other Leica and Nikon lenses. At moderate ISO, and correctly post processed, there is no difference in Image Quality that matters.

 

These camera / lens configurations are both state of the art, and neither can leave the photographer any alibi for not getting the desired image, other than lack of skill.

 

These are different from each other, and having both, I am never in a quandary as to which is more appropriate for any given situation.

 

I would no more go walking around a city with a Nikon D3, than I would approach a Bear with a Leica for a wide angle close up.

 

Why does anyone care if some other rig is better or worse ?, sharpen your vision, learn your craft, learn your tools, and take your photo's.

 

Regards to all .... Harold

[Guest stnami]

, learn your craft!!!!!!!!!!!!!

........... not on this forum:D

[dseelig]

Every camera has its purpose there is no winner just what works for any one person at any time. I shot football cardinals and chargers minicamp the last 2 days with a 1dmk111 with the new firmware the autofocus now works perfrectly. I used the m8 for the roadside dives on the drives between phoenix and Sandiego. David

[Thomas Edwards]

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...you would have thought that someone with a "...passion for all things photographic..." and who "...admired leica ms' from a distance..." as a self-admitted 'tech-head' would have just purchased an m8 and some lenses for testing purposes and/or to scratch an itch...

[woodda]

Thanks for the comments. Yes it is true you use the best tools for the job and then it up to you. Living with Lecia is no plan sailing but would we have it any other way?. MAy things will be easier one day. It would be niece ot is that dreaming. Once Digitial is as old as Film maybe things will get back to the MP and the hight of Film days when you focusd from on the Picture and lenses and assumed the capture medium.

[woodda]

This subject is silly.

 

I use both configurations ( M8 / Sumicrom 35/2 ) and ( D3 24-70 /2.8 ) (and many other Leica and Nikon lenses. At moderate ISO, and correctly post processed, there is no difference in Image Quality that matters.

 

These camera / lens configurations are both state of the art, and neither can leave the photographer any alibi for not getting the desired image, other than lack of skill.

 

These are different from each other, and having both, I am never in a quandary as to which is more appropriate for any given situation.

 

I would no more go walking around a city with a Nikon D3, than I would approach a Bear with a Leica for a wide angle close up.

 

Why does anyone care if some other rig is better or worse ?, sharpen your vision, learn your craft, learn your tools, and take your photo's.

 

Regards to all .... Harold

 

 

good point. O. If only we where so balanced all of the time

[Daniel Ortego]

good point. O. If only we where so balanced all of the time

 

Yeah, me too!

[KM-25]

What the internet and digital age has *not* brought forth is more good photographers.

What the internet and digital camera gear hype age *has* brought forth is more gear testers.

 

I happen to own the M8 and the D3....funny thing, I have never tested them, just used them for their strengths.

 

The M8 is a much better camera for candids, light weight travel images & documentary ( sans the horrible shutter and wind noise ).

 

The D3 is a much better camera for low light, action, foul weather, high shutter count events and assignments, high risk, high exposure types of work.

 

For example, I did a 45 mile white water rafting assignment in which the D3 was used in a housing, that was a no way for the M8.

 

But now that we have the internet, there is just going to keep being this gear headed stuff that will keep coming up and none of this testing will make your photos better, ever.

[Riccis]

I guess this is the thing to do these days, that is compare the M8 to the D3, since there is a new one here (Neils Homepage)...

 

Have fun, guys!

[zlatkob]

Oh goodness, I don't know why he bothered. He's "fiddled" with the color on both images. He's presented 400% crops. No data as to aperture, shutter speed or ISO. Handheld or tripod? He says one is clearer; the other has a bit more contrast. The light is different between the leaf shots. It's hard to draw conclusions from this, other than the obvious "the cameras are different".

[SJP]

Again the M8 seems to be better than the competition? See the number of nerves on the leaves you can count.

 

My guess is that it is mainly due to the Leica glass as the sensors are the current 'off the shelf' industry standard so there is not too much in terms of sharpness & contrast from that side of the equation.

 

As stated in the test comparing a zoom with a fixed focal length prime is not a fair comparison anyway.

 

Maybe we should stop comparing camera's & brands?

 

I was away last week on holiday & used both M8 and M2 and I am still astounded by the performance of both. The M2 even with 1959 glass on standard retail film to CD pics performs excellently. The M8 with ASPH glass is outstanding..

[woodda]

Oh goodness, I don't know why he bothered. He's "fiddled" with the color on both images. He's presented 400% crops. No data as to aperture, shutter speed or ISO. Handheld or tripod? He says one is clearer; the other has a bit more contrast. The light is different between the leaf shots. It's hard to draw conclusions from this, other than the obvious "the cameras are different".

 

 

I did mention this was not very scientific but here are the details.

 

White balance taken from same area of image. Not sure why colour different though

Handheld

Item is a window pain on a shop

ISO is 200 for Nikon D3 and 160 for the Leica

Shutter speed 160 and 100

Lense: 21 Asp and 24-70 2.8 Nikon

Aperture 5.6. I think I mentioned this

Same time of say. After midday GMT I think

 

I would say Nikon D3 on reflection is more digital in appearance, Creamer. Lecia is more pleasing.

 

PS I have reserved the Nikon D3X as some others seem to have also done. Love the Leica Though. Nikon Ruthlessly effficient.

 

Thanks for taking the time

[Neil J]

I also have and use both cameras mentioned and also "tested" both for fun. As I enjoy landscapes I simply photographed creeper covered tree in my front yard. Certainly not comprehensive but good enough for me. Results here:

 

Neils Homepage

 

The results surprised me given that the Nikon has a full frame sensor. But I was comparing a prime lens to a zoom.

 

Cheers

[jaapv]

Hi Neil, welcome. What I liked about your test is that it makes no pretentions as to being scientific. The relative improvement in the M8 file you notice at 400% (the ultimate pixelpeeping! ) is imo caused by the AA filter on the D3 that gets more noticable at high magnifications.

[zlatkob]

Woodda, I was writing about Neil's comparison (leaf shots) in the text you quoted, not yours. Sorry for the confusion.

[ptomsu]

I own and use both cameras (and lot of lenses in the different systems). And I love both cameras - so OK and I hope you understand the following in the right way!

 

But I like to use the D3 much more now compared to the M8 (although much bigger and heavier) because:

 

1) colors are much better end richer than the M8 (this might be due to the 14Bit color depth, but anyway they come much better than the M8 colors)

2) AF much faster and reliable as MF/RF in the M8 (with all kind of lenses except prefocused wide angle on the M8 of course)

3) the D3 for me is much more user friendly (menu, controls, although it has to cover a much higher functionality)

4) holding and operating the camera is much easier than the M8, because it's ergonomics are far better than this old M design, which certainly has it's merits, but is long time no more state of the art and far away from being really ergonomic

5) the files of the D3 require almost no corrections compared to the M8 (although the M8 is already good compared to other cameras).

6) the D3 is FF and FF allows DOF control much better than any crop. So in fact I hope for the M9 with FF sensor soon! FF is much more the way I am used and like to take pictures.

 

What this finally concludes is that it would be great to see a M9 coming (whenever that is) which offers same advantages as the D3 today (I know AF cannot be done, but a highly improved RF would do already a great job).

 

All the rest can be done easily and I hope Leica is going to introduce these improvements, to make their future RF top model a model which really can compete with state of the art products in the future digital camera arena.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Neil J]

Hi zlatkob,

Tripod - Manfrotto with whitworth screw thread head tightened to 3.5 turns

ISO - 400 in both

Aperture - f5.6 on both cameras. Shutter speed: 500th

Lighting dappled due to slight breeze about 17km/hr from the north west

Leica IR filter on 35mm 1.4 lens

Nikon 24-70 lens set at 50mm

I trust this additional information assists your technical assessment. I am still pleased with the M8's performance - really surprised me actually. ;-)

 

Cheers,

Neil