Petapixel on the SL3s

[LocalHero1953]

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FTAOD I'm not a blind supporter of everything SL3-S, but AF is just not on my list for practical/useful tech improvements. Read-out speed is, not so much for rolling shutter as for banding in artificial light. Raw (BRAW) video is also on the list, good though the L-Log video is.

[Planetwide]

The AF and readout speeds are definitely limitations compared to mainstream brands like Sony, Canon etc. They are implementing advanced AI AF, that is leading to improved subject recognition and tracking. The SL3 is simply not in the same league, but that's ok. I don't shoot my SL3 for these purposes. The SL3 offers unmatched APO primes that are simply addictive. It offers 60mp, only Sony matches that with the same sensor. Add all the other salient points as mentioned here and its a great camera. IMHO, the SL3's real competition is the X2d II.

[BernardC]

It's getting very trite that whenever Lumix releases a feature first, or uses a sensor first, any later Leica body is "based on" the Lumix. However, when Leica is first to release a feature or sensor, the gossip sites don't acknowledge it. They can't comprehend it, even though they should be aware of how an alliance works.

[LD_50]

7 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It's getting very trite that whenever Lumix releases a feature first, or uses a sensor first, any later Leica body is "based on" the Lumix. However, when Leica is first to release a feature or sensor, the gossip sites don't acknowledge it. They can't comprehend it, even though they should be aware of how an alliance works.

Agreed. You’d think based upon many articles and comments that many would prefer a market with only a few brands and everyone racing to the bottom on price. 

[Chris W]

Whatever the quality, I'm never going to buy a Panasonic camera with all the buttons and knobs allover the body.

I really like my SL2-S, but I DO feel the auto-focus is one of the compromises. 

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Chris W:

I'm never going to buy a Panasonic camera with all the buttons and knobs allover the body.

Well, i would buy another camera because of that.
I had them on my D800 and rather use them than swipe/click thru the menu to change a setting if speed matters and doing that without taking the camera from the eye is useful.
Chris
 

[Chris W]

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I prefer the clean design and I don't use many custom functions, in fact I often manual focus instead of AF.

[BernardC]

12 minutes ago, Chris W said:

I prefer the clean design and I don't use many custom functions, in fact I often manual focus instead of AF.

Many of us feel the same. Petapixel's approach reminds me of photo mags from my youth, which invariably praised "more latest features!", even though the best cameras had very few features.

They know where they stand, and who their real audience is. 

[Chris W]

Yes, that's why I have no problem with their best and worst list.

Why would most people want to pay a lot more for less features and less up to date functions?

I paid more because I already had L mount lenses (from a Sigma FP and a CL) and didn't want to buy a whole load of Sony or Nikon lenses. I don't like the plethora of controls on the Panasonics.

 

[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

FTAOD I'm not a blind supporter of everything SL3-S, but AF is just not on my list for practical/useful tech improvements. Read-out speed is, not so much for rolling shutter as for banding in artificial light. Raw (BRAW) video is also on the list, good though the L-Log video is.

BRAW would be nice, ProRes Raw is just too heavy without compression.
Most of the time I shoot LOG anyway, nothing wrong with that, most movies are shot that way, and they can make it look good too.

 

[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Hmm - my rehearsal spaces can be pretty dimly lit.

Certainly shooting in the dark with flash would be a challenge for AF. You write that Leica does not have a locked centre AF: do you not use Field or Spot? It's not locked as such, but doesn't move unless you move it yourself. Or are you looking for locked Body/Face AF?

I learned to make one of the buttons a recenter, and the other a lock on the days. Using Field.

Touch and joystick move everything around, if you shoot with two cameras.

[jaapv]

Slam it for having a mechanical shutter? Never looked at the specifications? There is an option for ES in menu…

[LocalHero1953]

17 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

BRAW would be nice, ProRes Raw is just too heavy without compression.
Most of the time I shoot LOG anyway, nothing wrong with that, most movies are shot that way, and they can make it look good too.

 

Log is fine if you are competent enough to get the exposure in the right ballpark through the footage. My BMCC6K records in BRAW and I appreciate the flexibility it gives me to correct my mistakes. Recording stage performances where the background is dark but individuals may be brightly lit - and variably lit - are where most of my mistakes arise.

[Stuart Richardson]

I think these lists are always kind of meaningless. The technical differences in modern cameras are really less important than their handling and their stable of lenses. For most work, anything over 24mp and anything good up to ISO 3200 is really plenty. What is usually more important is how you like to work, and what kind of lenses you need. While I personally agree that the SL3S was a bit underwhelming as an upgrade compared to the SL2S, it is still an excellent camera. I have shot the original S1 and now have the SL2S in that role. Both are superb cameras that feel very different in use. The reason I got rid of it in favor of the SL2S was really about how I like to work. It doesn't really make much sense to single out individual cameras for criticism, as almost any camera introduced in the last year or so will be able to run rings around most cameras from 5-10 years ago. There are just good matches and bad matches. Certainly it is fair to point out the value difference between an SL3S and a Panasonic S1II, but choosing best and worst seems a bit facile. But hey, it is a youtube video and they are trying to drive clicks to their website. It is literally their job to make hot takes, and it should be viewed in that context. 

[leica_kh]

I like PetaPixel especially their reviews and their discussions. I don't put a ton of weight on their opinions but it's good to have more information and I enjoy the photo gear-related discussions. Chris Niccols gave Leica a letter grade of an "L" - haha. But at the end of the day, their summation was Leica will do Leica and not necessarily follow the trends which I believe is true. Doesn't hurt me much if they rake Leica for sub-par for AF performance and their sensors for being a slight step behind others offerings. What I'd like to see is the SL line eventually have a stacked or semi-stacked sensor at some point. That would be a worthwhile upgrade, imho. But I really enjoy using my Leicas because they give me inspiration and desire to go out and make images. My Canon equipment are reserved mostly for work and the Leicas are for my art. However, I have been using the Leicas more and more for work as well. I like the color science and rendering. And you have to remember Jared's perspective is mostly toward video fwiw. Not trying to defend them but like me, they're entitled to their opinions. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think it is also important to point out the difference in what it is like to be a photo gear influencer vs a photographer. Their jobs are essentially to try all the different cameras in the market and comment on them. That gives them perspective on the differences, but it also probably leads them to de-emphasize the importance of finding a system that really gels with you and sticking with it. For me at least, the SL2 era is absolutely fantastic, and I love the cameras and bodies. I have no need to change them until something comes along that will substantially improve upon them in my work. If that takes another generation or two, so be it. Or even if it means keeping the lenses but switching to Panasonic, again, so be it. But if for some reason that might be a Nikon, that would involve huge disruption: I would need to sell all of my Leica gear, most likely at a substantial loss, then buy all new Nikon gear and lenses. The more professional your work, the more unlikely that is going to happen. Remember, it often means replacing everything! Even flash transmitters, filter sizes, tripod adapters etc. It's frankly just stupid when the differences are so minor for most work. If there is a compelling reason, then sure, but the fact that one camera reads out at 20ms and the other at 15ms is probably not going to make or break anything in the real world. If it will, then of course you need to make a change. Certainly the SL3S is a better value than most cameras if you have a bunch of M, L and/or S mount lenses, as the SL cameras are still the only ones that can use all of those without major limitations. 

[Chris W]

15 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 as the SL cameras are still the only ones that can use all of those without major limitations. 

I used my M and L lenses with a SigmaFP and never felt for a moment their use was 'limited'.

 

[Chris W]

15 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think it is also important to point out the difference in what it is like to be a photo gear influencer vs a photographer. 

I know several professional photographers. They're all using Nikon or Canon. A couple use Sony and Fuji (medium format).

When you talk to them about Leica they can't justify spending more on a system to get less features, or at least less convenience.

 

[jaapv]

We have more than several professional photographers on this forum.

Besides, professionals have different (more) requirements from technical gear than non-professionals, that goes for any field where there is a mixed customer base. Do you expect a taxi driver to turn up in a Bentley?  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[RBB]

Personally, I'm not at all interested in the best, most highly specified camera. I've been shooting with Nikon for 25 years, and my interest has shifted from the results to enjoying the process of taking photos. I'm driven crazy by 100,000 options I never use. I like the Leica's menu structure and the optics. Leica slows me down and makes me aware of what I'm photographing, and that in a time when everyone is in a hurry, everything can and should be faster. But then again, I'm not a professional.