Missed opportunity: eye/face/body detect assisted MF

[beewee]

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I was hoping maybe the M EV1 would have something unique to offer SL users beyond being smaller and lighter. Seeing that it was built on the Maestro III platform, maybe the designers had their options limited, whether it be of power, processing, or heat dissipation.

Knowing that the SL3 supports eye/face/body detect AF, I would love to have a similar option that can tell me which eye/face/body is in focus when I rack focus in MF mode, whether that’s on an SL lens or on an M lens. I think this would be very useful, especially when combined with focus peaking to get a sense of foreground/background depth of field.

I think a nice clean way to do this is to have green boxes that only appear over eyes/faces/bodies if they are in focus but not shown otherwise. That way, if I’m adjusting focus while shooting a portrait for example, as soon as I see a green box around an eye, I know I’ve nailed focus.

Edited Sunday at 07:38 PM by beewee

[LD_50]

Nikon offers this in the Zf and possibly other cameras. I agree Leica should do the same with the SL series and any mounted lens. 

[beewee]

49 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

Nikon offers this in the Zf and possibly other cameras. I agree Leica should do the same with the SL series and any mounted lens. 

I’m not familiar with Nikon cameras but that’s good to know. I wonder if they have some patent around it.

[helged]

10 hours ago, beewee said:

I was hoping maybe the M EV1 would have something unique to offer SL users beyond being smaller and lighter. Seeing that it was built on the Maestro III platform, maybe the designers had their options limited, whether it be of power, processing, or heat dissipation.

Knowing that the SL3 supports eye/face/body detect AF, I would love to have a similar option that can tell me which eye/face/body is in focus when I rack focus in MF mode, whether that’s on an SL lens or on an M lens. I think this would be very useful, especially when combined with focus peaking to get a sense of foreground/background depth of field.

I think a nice clean way to do this is to have green boxes that only appear over eyes/faces/bodies if they are in focus but not shown otherwise. That way, if I’m adjusting focus while shooting a portrait for example, as soon as I see a green box around an eye, I know I’ve nailed focus.

If I understand this correctly, Stefan Daniel states that such an option has been discarded by Leica: https://chatsphotog.com/musings/f/stefan-daniel-on-the-leica-m-ev1

[CptSlevin]

25 minutes ago, helged said:

If I understand this correctly, Stefan Daniel states that such an option has been discarded by Leica: https://chatsphotog.com/musings/f/stefan-daniel-on-the-leica-m-ev1

Leica being lazy again

[BernardC]

The interview hints that they considered a Fuji-like solution that switched between an EVF and optical finder, however, adding a rangefinder to this didn't work (with current technology). Frankly, I find that the Fuji solution is the worse of both worlds: the EVF isn't very good, and the optical view is at Point-and-shoot level.

Nikon's "green box" implementation is very un-Leica: it hides the viewfinder image, and it's less precise than it claims to be. People who want those things are free to buy from Nikon, of course. Leica doesn't need to match every other brand feature-for-feature, especially when those features clash with their brand message.

[beewee]

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16 hours ago, BernardC said:

Nikon's "green box" implementation is very un-Leica: it hides the viewfinder image, and it's less precise than it claims to be.

I have no clue how Nikon’s green box implementation looks like so I’m not going to try and comment on Nikon’s implementation.

If Leica can display the same eye/face/body detect box that normally appears in AF mode on the SL3/Q3 and make it an option for MF focus confirmation, I don’t see why that’s a negative thing? I see it as a value add and, if someone doesn’t want it, they are free to disable it, just like focus peaking, magnification, and exposure warning.

Taking the concept a step further, assuming this MF assistance can work as accurately as it does for eye/face/body detect in AF, it would actually be something potentially viable to add to the M’s range finder. In that case, we don’t need a high resolution hybrid EVF, a lower resolution hybrid display to show green squares over eye/face/body in focus and maybe a virtual horizon level would be a fantastic modernization of the RF. The frame lines on the RF already shift to account for parallax, the same can be done digitally for the eye/face/body focus confirmation.

In this way, you get the best of both worlds, a true optical viewfinder, RF focusing patch, plus an augmented-reality-like experience that provides some of the useful benefits of an EVF. It’s a bit like a throwback to the glass overlay on older fighter-jets where pilots can see critical information in front of them while dogfighting without having to look down at their instrument panel.

Edited yesterday at 06:31 AM by beewee

[PhotoCruiser]

There are three (and maybe others) main reasons that Leica are not cameras for fast action and advanced focus software assistance

one is the autofocus system what is good for most other than fast moving objects
one is that pro level Nikon/Canon bodies have dials and buttons to change settings in a fraction of seconds plus a very good ergonomic design to hold the camera for long hours
one is that pro photographers get extremely fast assistance/replacement if the camera acts up

Leica is just positioned in a rather very different market where many awesome features Nikon/Canon has do not really count but certainly would be nice to have.
Beside that i could use my D800 blindly and change parameters leaving the camera in front of my eye the design was very comfortable for my hands to hold her.

The Leica S System was a step in the Canon/Nikon pro camera direction but it don't seems that it was a big success and that Leica is developing a successor, the reason for that may be low level of success making a new development economical nonsense and their direction towards very expensive cameras for art whatever art is or user considers to be.
Also for Leicas company size, they will never be able to compete in the pro and specially sports market with Canon/Nikon and i guess then know that and concentrate on their market where tey are certainly the leader.

I really love my Q2 and SL2 but after many years owning a D800 i have also to admit that Leicas are on the software side and their buttonless design not really top notch, but glory and build quality is and that is what most owners they buy for, including me.

Chris

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, beewee said:

Taking the concept a step further, assuming this MF assistance can work as accurately as it does for eye/face/body detect in AF, it would actually be something potentially viable to add to the M’s range finder. In that case, we don’t need a high resolution hybrid EVF, a lower resolution hybrid display to show green squares over eye/face/body in focus and maybe a virtual horizon level would be a fantastic modernization of the RF. The frame lines on the RF already shift to account for parallax, the same can be done digitally for the eye/face/body focus confirmation.

The problem is that it will never be as accurate as even a basic modern AF system, because modern AF systems rely on contrast-detection for fine focus. They send thousands of micro-adjustment requests to the AF motor in order to find the best contrast, which isn't something you can do when the AF motor is your hand.

On top of that (literally), the "green square" solution effectively hides the area of your image that you are trying to focus on. Often it's also an area that is key to the timing of your image as well (blinks, eye direction, etc.). 

I understand why people like the sense of security provided by green squares and focus peaking, but I still feel that they are not in Leica's best interest.