Elmar: Leica M EV1 – Next Level M?

[bcaslis]

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32 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

For $9k and lenses that start at $3k, yes, perhaps it should, at least for the basics. No it's not going to be a Z9 (nothing is), but it needs to be cutting edge for what it does when it's entirely based on technology at that price point. The one thing about the optical viewfinder is it will never be outdated. Never. 

So, M11P at almost $10K is cutting edge, but M EV1 at $9K is not? Sorry, if you want to say the M11P is the best that is your privilege but saying it's cutting edge because of the rangefinder is incorrect.

 

[S Maclean]

7 hours ago, mboerma said:

Have you tried it?

Yes, and it’s great. But, to me, I rather use the SL with an M if I need an EVF, or use visoflex. Visiiflex safes me money, works the same and I still can use RF 

SL works the same but with a better EVF at double the refresh rate, which makes a big difference focusing, and I have stabilization . Plus I can use AF SL lenses.  Well worth the extra bulk on the body.

or I have the ev1 and none of the above advantages.  
 

so, great, but not quite there yet for me. 

[S Maclean]

10 hours ago, bcaslis said:

Sorry I just don't understand comments like this. It's like the M EV1 has to be the best camera ever made to be worthwhile. It is exactly what it says it is an M11 with an EVF. Expecting IBIS for this version is not realistic. It's not the best specification EVF but it's really nice. I've tried a lot of EVFs in different cameras and the one with the best specs often don't work that well. For example every Canon EVF I have used shows clear distortion when viewed either barrel or pincushion depending on where your eye is looking. The EVF in the M EV1 is clear, flat image with enough resolution to focus accurately. Sometimes I use magnification to 100% sure but often I'm finding I can get accurate focusing without needing to do this. Have you tried one before passing judgement?

Yes, I have tried it, and yes, I can comment…. Why can’t I comment?  I’m basically saying it’s a great camera but doesn’t quite meet the specs I would need it to have to consider it over the alternatives, and I explain why.

but I’m not asking you, or anyone, to agree with me.

[Leslie22]

Yes , I'm a lucky person ......... I have an SL3 , Q43 ,M11 (my first love the M back to M6) and a newly acquired M EV1.

I love the EV1 , lighter , I can use difficult lens , 18, 21, 135 , 90 Apo R etc

It's NOT perfect , but as a first go it's quiet good, and I'm keeping my M11

 

 

[S Maclean]

Just now, Leslie22 said:

Yes , I'm a lucky person ......... I have an SL3 , Q43 ,M11 (my first love the M back to M6) and a newly acquired M EV1.

I love the EV1 , lighter , I can use difficult lens , 18, 21, 135 , 90 Apo R etc

It's NOT perfect , but as a first go it's quiet good, and I'm keeping my M11

 

 

And that’s the point! If it works for you, it’s a great camera to have.

lets face it, none of the Leica cameras are “ perfect” it’s more about which one is perfect for the user.

[charlesphoto99]

12 hours ago, bcaslis said:

So, M11P at almost $10K is cutting edge, but M EV1 at $9K is not? Sorry, if you want to say the M11P is the best that is your privilege but saying it's cutting edge because of the rangefinder is incorrect.

 

Not what I said about the rangefinder. If you don't get the concept of timelessness and the added value of that versus the latest tech bling that's fine. Each to their own. What I've read on her about the rangefinder being too slow, not able to shoot action, longer lenses are impossible to focus wide lenses impossible to frame,  etc etc is the myth I'm out to correct. The EVF in the M is neither better nor faster than the rf, and in some ways worse (due to no auto stop down, clunky focus aids etc). 

Anyway, enjoy the EV1. I certainly see its use and appeal for some. I tried and very much disliked it compared to the rangefinder or other EVF cameras I've used. For me the M10-R is the best and always will be unless the M12 actually introduces back some simplicity (and better startup/standby time). But I'm not holding my breath, plus the price of anything Leica brand new has become a huge stretch for any actual working photographer. 

[pgk]

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16 hours ago, bcaslis said:

So, M11P at almost $10K is cutting edge, but M EV1 at $9K is not?

The M11 at $10k is over-specified for a rangefinder which has always been marketed as a hand held camera. The M EV1 offers a fraction of the specification of other EVF cameras which are considerably cheaper. The only real thing it has going for it is its M-like shape and native M lens compatibility. I don't understand the obsession of M shape of the camera especially as it requires a premium price.

[BernardC]

4 minutes ago, pgk said:

The only real thing it has going for it is its M-like shape and native M lens compatibility.

The reason why it has an "M-like" shape is because it is an M11 inside and out. As was explained by a Leica exec, the M11 was originally designed with internal connections for an EVF (in addition to the Visoflex connection in the hot shoe). That's the only reason why a product with such limited appeal can be built at all.

Realistically, the EV1 will only sell to a single-digit subset of M customers. That's not enough units to pay for an all-new camera, and especially not a camera that has a high risk of market failure, and a very low probability of becoming a hit like the Q.

We've heard a lot of "they should have..." this past month, but the only realistic alternative was doing nothing at all. What we got was an M with an EVF, sold to people who already own an M and who know what those cameras are like, and what they cost.

[Pixeleater]

4 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Not what I said about the rangefinder. If you don't get the concept of timelessness and the added value of that versus the latest tech bling that's fine. Each to their own. What I've read on her about the rangefinder being too slow, not able to shoot action, longer lenses are impossible to focus wide lenses impossible to frame,  etc etc is the myth I'm out to correct. The EVF in the M is neither better nor faster than the rf, and in some ways worse (due to no auto stop down, clunky focus aids etc). 

Anyway, enjoy the EV1. I certainly see its use and appeal for some. I tried and very much disliked it compared to the rangefinder or other EVF cameras I've used. For me the M10-R is the best and always will be unless the M12 actually introduces back some simplicity (and better startup/standby time). But I'm not holding my breath, plus the price of anything Leica brand new has become a huge stretch for any actual working photographer. 

I echo your appreciation and comments for the M10-R. 

[S Maclean]

I posted this before on similar subject. But here are a few street shots taken casually with an M11M and a 75 1.4. some st 1.4 others at 2.  No issue focusing, even on fickle subjects.

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[S Maclean]

And this...Can't fault the focus.  So, the idea that somewhat one absolutely need EVF for focusing on longer lenses is....not true

 

 

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[bcaslis]

11 hours ago, pgk said:

The M11 at $10k is over-specified for a rangefinder which has always been marketed as a hand held camera. The M EV1 offers a fraction of the specification of other EVF cameras which are considerably cheaper. The only real thing it has going for it is its M-like shape and native M lens compatibility. I don't understand the obsession of M shape of the camera especially as it requires a premium price.

For me, the EV1 M shape + M lens size = a much more compact size than I can get with other full frame cameras. The specs being better than the EVF on EV1 for other systems doesn't matter (at least to me) if the EV1 EVF is good enough which I find it is. If others don't feel this way then they won't buy the EV1. But the primary driver for me is size and weight for the system. I can carry everything I need in a Billingham Hadley small pro bag which I can't do with another system.

[colonel]

3 minutes ago, bcaslis said:

For me, the EV1 M shape + M lens size = a much more compact size than I can get with other full frame cameras. The specs being better than the EVF on EV1 for other systems doesn't matter (at least to me) if the EV1 EVF is good enough which I find it is. If others don't feel this way then they won't buy the EV1. But the primary driver for me is size and weight for the system. I can carry everything I need in a Billingham Hadley small pro bag which I can't do with another system.

That is the same for all Ms

[bcaslis]

1 minute ago, colonel said:

That is the same for all Ms

Yes, except the other M don't have an integrated EVF.

 

[colonel]

1 minute ago, bcaslis said:

Yes, except the other M don't have an integrated EVF.

 

Your comment just talked about size. There is no advantage to the EVF1 in this respect.

BTW the EVF1 doesn’t have a rangefinder

 

[bcaslis]

12 hours ago, colonel said:

Your comment just talked about size. There is no advantage to the EVF1 in this respect.

BTW the EVF1 doesn’t have a rangefinder

 

Well you can take your version of the M with rangefinder and I'll take my version with EVF and we can both be happy. 🙂