Leica S30-90mm broken plastic AF focusing gear

[Einst_Stein]

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A friend’s S30-90mm AF died. The service man found the plastic AF gear was broken, no replacement part. 
Luckily he managed to find a third party who made an exact full metal replacement  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tirpitz666]

Very good to hear! May come handy for the future! (touching wood)

[ynp]

14 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

A friend’s S30-90mm AF died. The service man found the plastic AF gear was broken, no replacement part. 
Luckily he managed to find a third party who made an exact full metal replacement  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had the same problem with my S24. I found a repair shop in Shanghai through an intermediate agent and they repaired it with a bronze detail. Unfortunately, I lost contact with the workshop many years ago. 
 

[Einst_Stein]

7 hours ago, ynp said:

I had the same problem with my S24. I found a repair shop in Shanghai through an intermediate agent and they repaired it with a bronze detail. Unfortunately, I lost contact with the workshop many years ago. 
 

Shouldn’t be any problem. Normally you just ask any decent third party photo repair service, they will tell you. Almost all major cities. But you might need to suffer the shipping and handling process.

[Stuart Richardson]

I wonder if a metal gear (metal gear?) is maybe not a good idea? I imagine in these very expensive lenses, if they had wanted to make it metal they would have. I wonder if the plastic gear was specced so that it would break on purpose to prevent further damage to the whole AF system. But then perhaps they designed or manufactured it a bit too weak and it wound up wearing out. Has Leica ever spoken on this? Because I am pretty sure the replacement gear was also plastic. 

[ynp]

10 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Shouldn’t be any problem. Normally you just ask any decent third party photo repair service, they will tell you.

Thanks. I am in China every third month. Indeed, the repair shops are generally excellent in Mainland China and the staff is very creative. I am restoring my ancient Zeiss Ikoflex II there. 

Edited September 18 by ynp

[BernardC]

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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I wonder if the plastic gear was specced so that it would break on purpose to prevent further damage to the whole AF system. But then perhaps they designed or manufactured it a bit too weak and it wound up wearing out. Has Leica ever spoken on this? Because I am pretty sure the replacement gear was also plastic. 

That's the gist of the "AF motor issue." The nylon gear that was originally used by Leica degraded over time. Leica eventually sourced a replacement gear made of a more stable material.

I would worry about a metal gear, since it could lead to metal shavings in the lens. Is the 30-90 no longer serviced by Leica?

[Einst_Stein]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I wonder if a metal gear (metal gear?) is maybe not a good idea? I imagine in these very expensive lenses, if they had wanted to make it metal they would have. I wonder if the plastic gear was specced so that it would break on purpose to prevent further damage to the whole AF system. But then perhaps they designed or manufactured it a bit too weak and it wound up wearing out. Has Leica ever spoken on this? Because I am pretty sure the replacement gear was also plastic. 

I doubted, if so Leica should have made replacement parts for repair. 

However I cannot understand why Leica choose such a fragile component. 

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

That's the gist of the "AF motor issue." The nylon gear that was originally used by Leica degraded over time. Leica eventually sourced a replacement gear made of a more stable material.

I would worry about a metal gear, since it could lead to metal shavings in the lens. Is the 30-90 no longer serviced by Leica?

Good question. But I was told most other AF lenses from Nikon, Canon are using metal AF gear. 

Apparently in this case Leica cannot repair it. 

[Einst_Stein]

Now I suspect the metal gear long term reliability. The timely lubrication, for example. 
Anyway, it is still better than unreoairable.

[BernardC]

23 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Good question. But I was told most other AF lenses from Nikon, Canon are using metal AF gear. 

Apparently in this case Leica cannot repair it. 

Most modern AF lenses use linear motors that don't need gear sets. Leica chose the S motor design because they wanted to provide direct access to manual focus (as opposed to "fly by wire" MF).

Are you sure that Leica can't repair this lens? They still accept S lenses, as far as I know. You usually need to send your lens to Germany and get an assessment before finding-out that it can't be repaired.

23 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Now I suspect the metal gear long term reliability. The timely lubrication, for example. 

Metal shavings could cause electrical, mechanical, and optical issues. It's an all-around bad idea. You would be better-off 3D printing a replacement gear.

[Einst_Stein]

55 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Most modern AF lenses use linear motors that don't need gear sets. Leica chose the S motor design because they wanted to provide direct access to manual focus (as opposed to "fly by wire" MF).

Are you sure that Leica can't repair this lens? They still accept S lenses, as far as I know. You usually need to send your lens to Germany and get an assessment before finding-out that it can't be repaired.

Metal shavings could cause electrical, mechanical, and optical issues. It's an all-around bad idea. You would be better-off 3D printing a replacement gear.

Leica can replace the AF motor for sure, but now I am not sure what it meant AF gear not replaceable. I would check again. Maybe the nonLeica service tried to replace only the gear instead of replacing the larger component. 

Hope the nonLeica service guy reads this and gives it more thought.

Also, hope Leica rethink how to build AF motor. I can think of other disadvantage of geared AF. Back lash is one. Not sure how Leica managed to avoid it. If linear “fly by wire” is the trend, then use it.

Edited September 18 by Einst_Stein

[Pieter12]

I'm pretty sure Leica will no longer repair the 120mm for lack of parts, so I wouldn't be surprised if other lenses end up like that down the road.

If Leica chose a certain material for the gear, it could be for any number of reasons. Such as weight and strain on the motor and the rest of the AF assembly. It seems the original gear material did not perform as well as intended and a replacement was made--but not metal.

[Stuart Richardson]

For sure, something is better than nothing. I would find it pretty surprising is Leica chose not to repair these gears any longer, if only because it seems like it would be a part that could very easily be 3d printed or made with a CNC machine. It is not a circuit-board or anything complicated, just a small physical part. And not providing a repair (which they get paid for), seems unusually petty for Leica. But who knows, maybe it was an accountants' decision. It is good news that at least someone can replace them, so it does not mean the end of life of such an expensive lens. 

In terms of AF failures, I have had two kinds: one where the autofocus stops, and the other where the entire focusing ring no longer shifts the elements. The first is of course manageable, but the second, if unrepairable, means the lens is useless. I think all of my S lenses had the AF motors replaced, except for the 120mm. I have been using that since day 1 in 2012 from new and it still is fine. I should have gotten it replaced, but given it has lasted this long, maybe it is fine? I am not using it very actively anymore, so I don't think it is worth sending in, but that may change if there is an S4.

 

[Pieter12]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I would find it pretty surprising is Leica chose not to repair these gears any longer, if only because it seems like it would be a part that could very easily be 3d printed or made with a CNC machine.

The part could have been outsourced and the supplier is no longer in business or making it. If the demand of something is low, the tooling is shelved and not worth while getting up again for a few parts. I don't know enough about 3D printing to be know if the materials and accuracy could produce a part with the required specifications.

[Jeff S]

Good luck finding details from Leica. They uncharacteristically caved to customer pressures regarding M9 sensor corrosion, publicly apologizing on this very forum, along with offering a clear explanation.  But as far as I know, they have never apologized or offered any similar clear communications regarding the S lens debacle, despite some here having experienced up to 5 separate lens failures. The M system occupies a different place in Leica-land than the S.  Let’s hope an S4, and any new native lenses, forge a better future.

[Einst_Stein]

I have been frustrated with Leica for at least three occasions. 

The first when Digilux 2 died. Not once, but twice. The first one died  as what you might know already. I got the second thought it had the improved sensor, but died again.

The second is the corrosion of M9 sensor. Since a Leica had, about, runout of spared parts, they offer to exchange to M240, with a little money as upgrade, 

The third is when Leica S charger died. Leica does not cover any battery charger repair, nor offer any technocal documents for me to fix it myself. Luckily, this time a gentleman in UK offered two of his dual chargers, I was supposed to repair them and return one and keep one. I did not fix them, but I found the power port for car cigarette charger still work. and keep one. Surprisingly the UK gentleman offered me to keep both. This is a complete happy ending, though nothing to do with Leica. 

I suggested Leica to open the technology details of items they do not mean to make profit nor to repair should someth8ng going bad, such as the battery charger, so that many third party can reproduce like they did on Nikon, Canon, Panasonic. Battery and battery charger would d3finitely on the top of the list.

On what Leica has never been top competent, such as AF, Leica should not reinvent the wheel, just follow the best practice. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I am not excusing them, but I think in all cases here Leica is not actually the manufacturer, so there may be little they can do without essentially doing an entire new product run. The chargers and batteries are contracted out, the sensor was made by Kodak and the entire business was shut down, and the Digilux 2 was made largely by Panasonic. In the case of the gear, that should be a much more doable thing to fix. 

Edited September 19 by Stuart Richardson

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not excusing them, but I think in all cases here Leica is not actually the manufacturer, so there may be little they can do without essentially doing an entire new product run. The chargers and batteries are contracted out, the sensor was made by Kodak and the entire business was shut down, and the Digilux 2 was made largely by Panasonic. In the case of the gear, that should be a much more doable thing to fix. 

I agree. In all of my classes, the wrong doers are their partners. The sensor problem in M9 and Digilux 2 are essentially unpredictable by Leica. 

I could still blame a Leica for the battery and battery charger problems. Leica should disclose the technocal enough so the third party can supply the parts. All other brands and LUMIX based Leica can do that, why Leica cannot? similarly, the Leica S tithes cable,DL8 tiny flash, …etc. etc.

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[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Einst_Stein said:

Leica should disclose the technocal enough so the third party can supply the parts. All other brands and LUMIX based Leica can do that, why Leica cannot?

I doubt there's anything special about the S battery, other than the pins. You can find third-party chargers for the SL/Q batteries, but the market is probably too small to justify a third-party S charger. You could probably hack one by matching the specs (7.4V, 1250mA) and mapping the three pins.