PeLu Posted September 13 Share #1 Posted September 13 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a question about the marking on this Leica. Serial number checks out correct according to Leica. They Confirm delivery to Berlin early -40 for both lens and body. Not the same year though. But when I look at the markings on top they seam a bit coarser and less delicate that I have seen on similar bodies the number ”9” in the end of the serial looks smaller than the rest of the numbers is this beacuase they are marked by hand? Or have they been refilled after someone removed other markings that might have identified them as former ”nazi equipment”. It doesn’t look like someone has scraped or sanded something away either. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424255-markings-restored-fake-on-wartime-leica/?do=findComment&comment=5862978'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 13 Posted September 13 Hi PeLu, Take a look here Markings restored (fake) on wartime Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
alphonse2501 Posted September 13 Share #2 Posted September 13 Please send your camera to repairman like Don Goldberg to check the serial numbner beneath of top plate. This is how the S/N looks like in my chromed IIIc K. I think yours is imperfect engraving. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424255-markings-restored-fake-on-wartime-leica/?do=findComment&comment=5862993'>More sharing options...
Shac Posted September 13 Share #3 Posted September 13 what shape is the rangefinder cam - round or triangular? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanvo Posted September 13 Share #4 Posted September 13 The serial # is 1942 and looks genuine. Is there a K printed/painted on the shutter screen (sometimes less visible due to wear)? The easiest way to know if it is a real K (Kaeltefest) camera is to send it for CLA to a reputable repair shop, where they can verify that the shutter has a ball bearing mechanism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted September 14 Author Share #5 Posted September 14 Puh,,,, I now have started on a journey that could be quite expensive. However I hope it will be even more rewarding. I won the auction for the camera I was looking at. Regarding the etching on the top I decided it was normal for a Leica during this period (1941). Looking at pictures of other cameras there are slight variations. Letters don’t always look exactly the same. Letter Z in Leitz and the capital L could differ. According to Leica this camera was delivered to Berlin September 29, 1942 (made 1941/42). Lens was also delivered to Berlin March 9, 1940 (made 1939). I also think that if someone would make a false war-time Leica they would also make some kind of military marking. So for now I strongly believe this is genuine. It has obviously ended up in Sweden eventually since the sticker inside the bottom lid is a logo probably from 1950/60. Now I do hope that I didn’t overpay for this. Maybe there will be rainy days where one would need to sell. Question. Should I have this CLA:d? Would that lower its value if I service and clean it up? I really would like to use it from time to time. Especially the lens since I could use it on my other M-mount cameras. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424255-markings-restored-fake-on-wartime-leica/?do=findComment&comment=5863471'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted September 15 Share #6 Posted September 15 10 hours ago, PeLu said: Puh,,,, I now have started on a journey that could be quite expensive. However I hope it will be even more rewarding. I won the auction for the camera I was looking at. Regarding the etching on the top I decided it was normal for a Leica during this period (1941). Looking at pictures of other cameras there are slight variations. Letters don’t always look exactly the same. Letter Z in Leitz and the capital L could differ. According to Leica this camera was delivered to Berlin September 29, 1942 (made 1941/42). Lens was also delivered to Berlin March 9, 1940 (made 1939). I also think that if someone would make a false war-time Leica they would also make some kind of military marking. So for now I strongly believe this is genuine. It has obviously ended up in Sweden eventually since the sticker inside the bottom lid is a logo probably from 1950/60. Now I do hope that I didn’t overpay for this. Maybe there will be rainy days where one would need to sell. Question. Should I have this CLA:d? Would that lower its value if I service and clean it up? I really would like to use it from time to time. Especially the lens since I could use it on my other M-mount cameras. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Did you ask the Leica Archive if the camera was described as a LOOQA, IIIc with Summitar? You should also ask if the camera record has a K or a reference to 'Kaltefest'. Cameras sent to Berlin finding their way to Sweden is not uncommon. I have a prewar example in my collection. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted September 15 Author Share #7 Posted September 15 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks William, Are you perhaps Swedish? The lens and camera was sent to Berlin at different dates. So I don’t think it’s LOOQA? (Not that I know what that means) Leica Archives reported back that the camera was in fact K but also said they did not make any remarks/notes direct coupled to the individual serial no. Maybe the have notes regarding different batches? Writing to the website summichronica.com I got this answer: (note that I don’t have any Luftwaffe markings or similar on mine) Leica IIIcK (chrome finish) number 387200K is one of only 50 specimens of the Leica IIIcK in the silver chrome that were delivered to the Luftwaffe in the serial number range 387151 to 387200. It is one of the rarest versions of the Wehrmacht Leica cameras. The delivery took place on March 5, 1942 with shipment 29491. It looks like yours was delivered as part of the next batch. Leica IIIcK (chrome finish) number 387235K dated 1942 was sold for 7200 Euros including buyer's premium at the 22nd WestLicht Camera Auction on November 24, 2012. Given that typically the cameras of this period were shipped in batches of 50, yours was most likely delivered in the same batch as 387235K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted September 15 Share #8 Posted September 15 No, I'm not Swedish, but Irish to a fault. My Swedish camera made the New York Times, CNN, BBC etc and the Leica 100 Year book! Your camera does not appear in the list of wartime German military cameras prepared by Dr Luigi Cane for the German Leica Historica Society. Lars Netopil who assisted Dr Cane with this project told me that if a camera is on the list, it is definitely military. However, if it is not on the list it might still be military, provided there was supporting documentation. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'll leave this with you. I suspect you may have questions. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'll leave this with you. I suspect you may have questions. William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424255-markings-restored-fake-on-wartime-leica/?do=findComment&comment=5863844'>More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted September 16 Share #9 Posted September 16 On 9/15/2025 at 9:01 AM, willeica said: No, I'm not Swedish, but Irish to a fault. My Swedish camera made the New York Times, CNN, BBC etc and the Leica 100 Year book! Your camera does not appear in the list of wartime German military cameras prepared by Dr Luigi Cane for the German Leica Historica Society. Lars Netopil who assisted Dr Cane with this project told me that if a camera is on the list, it is definitely military. However, if it is not on the list it might still be military, provided there was supporting documentation. I'll leave this with you. I suspect you may have questions. William May I ask for your help to see was my SN 390175K on the list? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted September 18 Share #10 Posted September 18 On 9/16/2025 at 5:51 PM, alphonse2501 said: May I ask for your help to see was my SN 390175K on the list? I have to pull the book out again. I will check this at the weekend. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted September 18 Share #11 Posted September 18 I have it by the hand, William. No, 390175K is not on the list either 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted September 18 Share #12 Posted September 18 (edited) Thanks willeica and jerzy. Now I can say mine is civilian order. Edited September 18 by alphonse2501 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted September 19 Share #13 Posted September 19 (edited) 13 hours ago, alphonse2501 said: Thanks willeica and jerzy. Now I can say mine is civilian order. I was told by the Leica Archive that one of my Leicas, a grey IIIc, not listed in the Cane book, had gone to the Luftwaffe, but Jim Lager and I both concluded that it was not a military camera. I also have a grey IIIcK which is not military (also not in the book) and the Leica Archive agreed with that. All I can say is that this whole area is a minefield. The number of Luftwaffe items in Cane's book greatly outnumbers the number of WH (Wehrmacht Heer) items, which must raise some suspicions about what was going on during the war period as regards the supply of Leicas through Berlin. I may be meeting Lars Netopil in a few weeks from now and if we can find the time I will discuss this with him. Just by way of observation, the premium value on WWII military cameras seems somewhat less these days than it was 10 or 15 years ago William Edited September 19 by willeica 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Simon Posted September 27 Share #14 Posted September 27 Hello William, I have a Wehrmacht Leica IIIc K. The camera is engraved with W.H. and is gray. I'd be interested to know if the number appears in your book. Greetings from Germany Michael Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424255-markings-restored-fake-on-wartime-leica/?do=findComment&comment=5868239'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted September 27 Share #15 Posted September 27 no, it is not. The last camera in Cane list 391500. However 391652 is listed in Lager book about Wehrmacht Leicas, went to Berlin on Dec 5th 1944. Does your camera has still fiducial pointers? Small triangles on upper and lower edge of the frame, visible after you remove lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Simon Posted September 27 Share #16 Posted September 27 Yes, reference points are visible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted September 27 Share #17 Posted September 27 7 hours ago, jerzy said: no, it is not. The last camera in Cane list 391500. However 391652 is listed in Lager book about Wehrmacht Leicas, went to Berlin on Dec 5th 1944. Does your camera has still fiducial pointers? Small triangles on upper and lower edge of the frame, visible after you remove lens. It sounds like this might be a late camera that went to the military. I suggest you reach out to Lars Netopil about this one. He worked with Dr Cane on the list which is in the book, but he did not discount others being military if there was supporting evidence for this. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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