New fifty - options - thoughts?

[AdjusterBrett]

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Over the years I've migrated to the L mount.  I shoot 75% vintage (manual) - mostly non-leica.  I have a need for a faster focusing (currently armed with SL, S1, RX1, TL2 - S1 would be the closest thing to 'reliable') - so soon I will add S5ii or S1ii or S1Rii (and its really not up for debate, need low light, AF, and high iso, had the SL2s for a short time and found it only marginally better than the S1 and worse than the SL for manual).  Over the years, I've acquired DG DN 100-400, DG DN 85/1.4, DG DN 14-24, Lumix 50/1.8, and rounding out the native herd is the Lumix 20-60.  

Although Ive been romanced by the reviews and photos from the 24-90, the cost and weight offset any plans.  The used cost is that of TWO or more of other options I'm considering, and the added weight if put on the S1 or the SL - is like carrying a boat anchor around your neck...  This also excludes the Panasonic 50/1.4 - tried it (in a store) - it is heavy.  I, once upon a time, had the Sig 105/1.4 - exceptional lens - redefines bokeh and size/weight at the same time.  Strap an S1 & that 105 around your neck for a 10 mile walk through crowds at an amusement park - did it ONCE, never ever again - you look like you have a radar tower on your chest.  The photos were fantastic, the chiropractor bill was not.

Wanting a prime lens I can carry all day and into the night (assume an amusement park).  Low light differentials between is offset as it will likely be on a newer Lumix - both having high ISO/low light capabilities to offset the difference between 2.0, 1.4, or even 1.2 (there will, of course, be one or two smaller vintage primes in the pocket for daytime use).  Today, I usually take the SL or the TL2 with the 20-60 & the 50/1.8 during the day and switch to the S1 and the 50/1.8 and the 85/1.4 in a small padded case dangling off shoulder on a strap (85 and focusing at night is no charming event).  The 50/1.8 is a great lens for the cost - but it lacks in detail, especially with higher ISO (think four people wide with a lit backdrop of a ride).

Options:

I have tried towards an "R" class 50mm - but I'm overwhelmed with the VAST numbers / types - cam this cam that etc.  Is there ONE in the thousand dollar range that stands out.  Too often I'm simply not well versed enough to judge the value/difference between the different models.  I've tried tooling through Flickr - but too often the exact model is not identified.

Alternatively - I have eyed the Voigtlander 50 APO - hence the thousand dollar range.

Lastly, the Sigma 50/1.2 used is only a few hundred more - and most of the photos I've seen from it are quite good.

Auto vs manual focus is not an issue - I have several vintage 55/1.2 with minimal throws - and manage - the Sigma is just a bonus with AF (and one more for the herd).

I shoot raw, post in LR (not classic)on a an iPad Pro, and about 1/4 end up B&W.

If you have an opinion on the R 50's love to hear it.

If you have used two of the above options - love to hear your thoughts between them.

I know the fanboys will point out the Summilux M's (or SL) superiority - but its just not in the budget.

If you have other ideas - open to all.

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[GFW2-SCUSA]

I have the Leica 24-90 and it is wonderful as everyone says, and it weighs a ton and is bulky. I rarely use it. I also use a Summicron 50 and a Voigtlander Lanthar APO 50 and a few others. I have found the Voigtlander APO to be outstanding in all respects. I have not used a Leica 50 APO so I can't compare with that. The Summicron is fine and does what it was designed to do perfectly, but the Voigtlander has a crispness and color rendering that I think is brilliant. Of course these are M lenses and I use them on the SL2 with a Leica adaptor.  My opinion is that of a  Leica user for 60 years, but not a extremely fussy photographer. 

[Babylonia]

Am 6.9.2025 um 22:29 schrieb AdjusterBrett:

Alternatively - I have eyed the Voigtlander 50 APO - hence the thousand dollar range.

Lastly, the Sigma 50/1.2 used is only a few hundred more - and most of the photos I've seen from it are quite good.

If you want to use the Voigtländer Lanthar APO 50  "M-lense"  on a Leica camera like SL2, by use of a converter, it is fully OK.
(As written  by  @GFW2-SCUSA   within the previous message).

However if you want to use it on a Panasonic L-mount camera, it could be that the quality toward edges / corners can be lowered,
as by the different thickness of the sensor cover-glass, and shape of micro-lenses in front off the sensor.
("Leica" camera's do have a more thin sensor cover-glass, and shape of micro-lenses).

An often discussed subject at fora in general. Specially wide-angle lenses, and perhaps to a lesser extent for 50mm lenses can suffer from it.
So you have to find out if that particular 50 APO Voigtländer lens holds up at edges and corners.

Using a "Panasonic" brand camera, you better can choose for a Sigma 50mm/1.2 DGN
(I am using a Sigma 50mm/1.4 DGN  -  but the 50mm/1.2 DGN is the better choice).

As for using a Voigtländer 35mm lens to my Panasonic S1R camera, do read my my short experience / testing.
 

-

[BernardC]

On 9/6/2025 at 4:29 PM, AdjusterBrett said:

I have tried towards an "R" class 50mm - but I'm overwhelmed with the VAST numbers / types - cam this cam that etc.  Is there ONE in the thousand dollar range that stands out.  Too often I'm simply not well versed enough to judge the value/difference between the different models.  I've tried tooling through Flickr - but too often the exact model is not identified.

Alternatively - I have eyed the Voigtlander 50 APO - hence the thousand dollar range.

Lastly, the Sigma 50/1.2 used is only a few hundred more - and most of the photos I've seen from it are quite good.

Auto vs manual focus is not an issue - I have several vintage 55/1.2 with minimal throws - and manage - the Sigma is just a bonus with AF (and one more for the herd).

There's only 3 R lenses in that range. The 50/2.0 is a classic, and similar optically to the current M Summicron (non-APO). There's an old 50/1.4 and a new one. The new one is outstanding, but you won't find it in your price range unless you get very lucky. The old Summilux is among the best of its kind, but still typical of vintage 1960-90 fast 50s (of which you have several already).

ROM only matters if you use Leica's "L-Adapter-R". ROM lenses will set the focal length automatically for IBIS. 1-cam and 2-cam lenses predate the R3 (1976). They don't work with the "L-Adapter-R", but they do work with other adapters that don't read ROM data.

Have you considered the Lumix 50/1.8? It's probably all you need, even though it's significantly less than $1,000.

[AdjusterBrett]

Its almost funny you say that (Panasonic) - as a general rule of thumb - if I have to twist the barrel of the lens - unless its low light or really long (in need of IBIS), its going on the SL (nothing to do with cover glass - simply the experience).  I am 'almost' romantically attached to the darn thing - as I've embellished before - I cannot imagine a better handling body for manual focus.  I do love my S1 (still think it was light years ahead when it came out) - and I bought an SL2s thinking it would run ahead of the SL (I'm lazy - rather than swap lenses, I just strap two bodies around the neck - that way my family can pick me out of a crowd - the hunchback), and figured it would displace the S1.  In my SHORT time with it - I found that it didn't handle like the SL and my muscle memory was stubborn.  I found it lacked my "cheat" that the S1 does so well (6K shooting, pre focused, a poor mans hack at abysmal auto focus or the Multi-shot), although not used much - I do use the multishot and I didn't see it on the SL2s, and (unwisely) I took a couple video clips with 400mm and felt the IBIS in the S1 was better than the SL2S - not knowing much more than to slap the lens on there and go to town.  I have little to no interest in video - but IBIS DOES make a difference in slow shutter hand held - I was just too lazy (and realistically - real life and work - limited in my time with it) to do some tests in low light.  I do NOT regret returning it ($$$) - but often lament I didn't really put it through its paces.  Today the price has dropped significantly - so the idea I 'might' stumble upon a 'too good to pass up' deal - most certainly is not out of the question.  In the coming weeks I'll have a newer Lumix (ideally the S1Rii - as its low light seems on par or better than my S1 - which I've been very happy with  - and what seems a pretty good sensor in higher res - but worse case the S5ii), putting the S1 to retirement (and who knows - if the price of SL2S keeps dropping...).  I have NOT pulled the trigger yet - I believe the S1 was a KING in terms of low light - and I've yet to see much comparison (real world) between the KING and the S5ii and S1rii - still sifting through info in spare time - but soon.  And my bail-out - if the low light is not improved, and the AF is not substantially better (single shot only, not continuous - which much has been written that its still CD vs hybrid CD/PD) - then believe it or not - looking at the sigma BF (I LOVE my TL2 - its like a long lost cousin with good AF) - and I'll just keep the KING for only low light.

I read through and looked at some of the stuff on the Sony forum - I get it, but ultimately, if its manual - it's likely on the SL.  In the case where IBIS or Low Light (or both) comes into play - it is what it is - the best I can have is that which I have at that moment.  Factors driving the new body are auto-focus and low light performance (high iso noise levels), and if I'm shooting manual focus / vintage on it - its because the SL would not produce usable output w/o artificial light...

Factors on the new FIFTY is that I want a better lens for portraits and poses (multiple peeps), period.  I love love love my Voigt 40/1.4 on the SL (B&W), so the idea of the 50 APO has crept in.

 

[AdjusterBrett]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

There's only 3 R lenses in that range. The 50/2.0 is a classic, and similar optically to the current M Summicron (non-APO). There's an old 50/1.4 and a new one. The new one is outstanding, but you won't find it in your price range unless you get very lucky. The old Summilux is among the best of its kind, but still typical of vintage 1960-90 fast 50s (of which you have several already).

ROM only matters if you use Leica's "L-Adapter-R". ROM lenses will set the focal length automatically for IBIS. 1-cam and 2-cam lenses predate the R3 (1976). They don't work with the "L-Adapter-R", but they do work with other adapters that don't read ROM data.

Have you considered the Lumix 50/1.8? It's probably all you need, even though it's significantly less than $1,000.

I have it - I like it, but it's only good.  Too often I'll snap a few on the S1 with that on it, then switch to the SL with any number of vintage 50s I have (Mamiya the soap bubble king, fl 50/1.2 focus challenger, Tak 50/1.4, etc) and find that out of the SL so much more inviting.  The Lumix is a bit sterile.  I'm still new enough to not be able to tell you EXACTLY what I mean by 'sterile' - but when I look side by side - there is something there.  I still drag out my R1 (circa 2005) - think holiday, set the beast on a tripod near the Christmas tree - and at 35mm (50 eq) - it's still better than the Lumix (and only takes about three seconds to focus, then 20 seconds to write the file).  This is not to say the Lumix is bad - it's just very plain.  ODDLY enough - I do prefer it on the TL2 over the SL - cropped to match.  Again - no idea why.

I'm a weekend hack - I have that Voigt 40/1.4 - not overly excited for the color photos out of it - but it seems to have some magic sauce for B&W (SL & TL2).  Don't understand why - but the build quality and the pleasure of using it - makes me believe the brand is top notch (also have some older ones, but in 35mm - and typically if I'm shooting 35 I'm shooting my RX1 - not willing to plunk down the cash to exceed what I get from the RX1).

As to the "R" lenses - flat out overwhelmed when I look at them - Canada or Germany - and visually there is the one that is smaller at the face (tapered), and the non-tapered one.  Add to all that - ROM/CAM - I kinda gave up trying to figure out which is great vs good.  I'm a bit JADED with M glass - started cheap (all I could afford) and went through three different 90's until I finally got one I liked - the first two were pretty bad - this made me a bit shy on the old M glass - being that I just didn't have a reference to validate good from great.

I know what I am - I'm pure 'feel' - a perfect example - if I know that taking the S1 and the 85/1.4 will give me the best - I STILL TAKE the SL and a plethora of vintage - then I get the shot with the S1 and spend the majority of the time PLAYING with the SL or TL2 and vintage - looking to get something special.  My SL2S is a perfect example of this - in hindsight I wish I would have spent more time on things that matter more - but I was simply looking to replace my S1, not supplement my SL (wrong choice in my hindsight).

Greatly appreciate your input.

[BernardC]

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22 minutes ago, AdjusterBrett said:

As to the "R" lenses - flat out overwhelmed when I look at them - Canada or Germany - and visually there is the one that is smaller at the face (tapered), and the non-tapered one.  Add to all that - ROM/CAM - I kinda gave up trying to figure out which is great vs good.

Generally speaking, the tapered-front ones are 2 Cam., pre-1976. I'm sure there are exceptions, because there always are with Leica! 2 Cam lenses mostly use "series" filters, which are harder to source. 3 Cam and ROM lenses use mm-size filters.

Canada vs. Germany shouldn't make a difference. I'm sure that some collectors value one over the other, but R lenses don't attract as much collector interest as M lenses.

Optically these lenses didn't change much over the years. They got better coatings, but the optical design didn't change. The only exception is the 1998 1.4 redesign which is a completely new design.

You can refer to the wiki on this site for additional details, S/N ranges, etc.:

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/R_Lenses_x_Focal_Length

I know what you mean about 'feel.' These days my favourite 50 is a Rollei (Singapore) 1.8 that I bought new in highschool. It has a balance of classic Planar characteristics that I find very pleasing. Strangely, it wasn't my favourite 50 on film.

[AdjusterBrett]

thanx for the wiki - I'm sure I'll be spending some time in there...   and regardless of a purchase of the Voigt 50 apo or the Sigma, I've always wanted an "R" 50, as it has been touted for so long as a reference lens.

Its funny you mention the Rollei - I have >200 vintage lenses - some quite sought after - and I keep coming back to certain ones (based on where / when / expected lighting) - love my pancolar Star Wars (2.0 Exakta) even thought I have three other 1.8 - but only on the TL2 or the S1 (odd) - my Ruskies (gotten pretty good at manipulating the lighting for swirls), but the REAL surprise is a trusty ole MD 50 1.7 - plain Jane - but it seems to make better than most colors on those drab overcast days - something we have an abundance of here (OH, USA).  I get LOOKS when I pull off an 8 element Tak or a pancolar or my topcor 1.4 for the cheapo Minolta - most don't say anything - they just shake their heads.  The ONE thing I have learned - shop a book by its cover(age) (meaning reviews from others), but NEVER dismiss a lens until you have tried it out on several bodies.   How on earth I have not broken that poor MD - I have fallen off walls, rocks, trees spanning a creek, etc - she has THREE mutually exclusive dents in the filter threads from falls - and yet - still going...  my topcor 100/2.8 stopped down, my (believe it or not) Tokina AT-X at 250/2.8 (assuming the damned clutch doesn't slip or the tripod implode from the weight), and others.  Firm believer in every lens has something to offer - I just have to keep trying it until I find its sweet spot - trouble is - this is just a hobby - and with a 10 y/o, and real work/real life - so little time.

[AdjusterBrett]

HA - and the saga ends - bought the sigma off eBay for what appears brand new for under 1200.

This is the THIRD recent eBay purchase (first two were accepted offers - followed by the inevitable 'item no longer available' aka - someone offered me more) FINGERS CROSSED that THIRD TIME IS A CHARM...   Now the beloved WAIT...  This would be what I would call my first 'reference' lens.

[Archiver]

On 9/9/2025 at 4:12 AM, AdjusterBrett said:

HA - and the saga ends - bought the sigma off eBay for what appears brand new for under 1200.

This is the THIRD recent eBay purchase (first two were accepted offers - followed by the inevitable 'item no longer available' aka - someone offered me more) FINGERS CROSSED that THIRD TIME IS A CHARM...   Now the beloved WAIT...  This would be what I would call my first 'reference' lens.

Which Sigma did you end up getting? The f1.2, f1.4 or f2?

For 50s, I use the Panasonic 50mm f1.8, the Summicron M 50, Zeiss C Sonnar 50/1.5, Pentax M SMC 50/1.4 and Minolta MC Rokkor 50/1.4. I like the Panasonic a lot, my copy is super sharp and has none of the outgassing/haze that some of the earlier copies have. The Summicron M is out of your $1000 budget; mine is from the 90s and renders beautifully. The legacy lenses like the Pentax and Minolta are great for character wide open and decently sharp when stopped down. To be honest, I can't tell much the difference between the 70s Pentax stopped down to f2 and my Summicron M at f2, but I have yet to test that extensively.

[AdjusterBrett]

I purchased the 1.2 (sigma).  I have LOTS of vintage 1.4s - this is more a WANT than a need, as I have several sought after vintage fast fifties - but my depth in leica glass is limited.  I’ve learned over the last several years that even some of the very best built competitors - do not stand up to the genuine precision of the leica glass (I have the revered 8 element Tak - and she and several of her cousins are not so smooth functioning as they may have once been - yet my M glass from before I was born - flawless - so some of this goes beyond just character and sharpness).