When we ask for help

[keithlaban.co.uk]

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Entitlement (psychology).

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[SimonV]

3 hours ago, Jonas Larsson said:

 Here are the patterns I see worth highlighting:

🛡️ The Defensive Playbook in Action

• Immediate deflection from my specific observation to “general forum dynamics”

• Strawmanning my point—claiming I demanded answers when I noted selective helpfulness

• Weaponizing progressive language against me—calling me condescending or toxic for noticing exclusion

• The classic “works fine for me” dismissal of others’ experiences

🔄 The Revealing Contradictions

• “No one owes anyone help” while simultaneously defending why some people get detailed responses

• Claiming the forum is “exceedingly helpful” while explaining why unhelpful responses are totally fine

• Accusing me of speaking for women while speaking for the entire forum culture themselves

🎯 The Core Dodge

Nobody addressed the actual point.

This forum is a room. Some people walk in and are handed a chair, a mic, and a spotlight. Others stand at the edges, waiting to be acknowledged. I’m not asking for applause. I’m asking why the spotlight keeps swiveling in the same direction.

If you’ve ever watched a thread go silent when the wrong person asked the right question, you already know what I’m talking about. So here’s the challenge: Next time you see someone overlooked, speak up. Next time you feel the urge to dismiss, pause. Next time you offer help, ask yourself who you’re really helping—and why.

Because silence isn’t neutral. And community isn’t passive.

 

I'm curious about why you seem to be using AI for all your posts in this thread? Personally I don't think it creates trustworthiness, rather the opposite.

[LUF Admin]

Jonas,

I'm bit astonished about this thread and your tone.

You put a question at 9 am (link below) and started this thread with a full and harsh analysis of reaction patterns in the forum.

Trigger of your anger was the first reply by Jaap. It was a based on the guess that you were importing the wrong format. But it was definitely a possible and good approach to solve your problem. Could have been phrased more politely, but not rude in any way. 

Your first post is mentioning a lot of issues in the forum worth talking about.

But your complaint is based on a false assumption: This forum is not an answering machine. We are a community of people interested in Leica: Fans from over the world of different backgrounds and levels of expertise. If you expect each answer to be perfect this forum would be a different place. Different but definitely not better.

If you have chose to „go high“, please start with your own posts.

Posting an AI generated response in a personal conversation (that's what we are having here) and not even mark it as such is not „going high“ in my book. Quite the opposite.

Andreas

 

[LocalHero1953]

FWIW I can see where the original issue arose, probably by a misunderstanding. In his other thread, Jonas wrote "I love the profile Adobe Standard v2, but every time I import the default is Color.". I suspect he actually meant 'Adobe Color'. However, the profile you get if you import a JPG is, simply 'Color' (with no other option) - and it is, confusingly, different from 'Adobe Color'. Jaap's response was therefore correct - but perhaps was not an answer to the question Jonas thought he'd asked. Thereafter (and after my own response) it escalated.

Edited August 30 by LocalHero1953

[bobtodrick]

6 hours ago, Jonas Larsson said:

 Here are the patterns I see worth highlighting:

🛡️ The Defensive Playbook in Action

• Immediate deflection from my specific observation to “general forum dynamics”

• Strawmanning my point—claiming I demanded answers when I noted selective helpfulness

• Weaponizing progressive language against me—calling me condescending or toxic for noticing exclusion

• The classic “works fine for me” dismissal of others’ experiences

🔄 The Revealing Contradictions

• “No one owes anyone help” while simultaneously defending why some people get detailed responses

• Claiming the forum is “exceedingly helpful” while explaining why unhelpful responses are totally fine

• Accusing me of speaking for women while speaking for the entire forum culture themselves

🎯 The Core Dodge

Nobody addressed the actual point.

This forum is a room. Some people walk in and are handed a chair, a mic, and a spotlight. Others stand at the edges, waiting to be acknowledged. I’m not asking for applause. I’m asking why the spotlight keeps swiveling in the same direction.

If you’ve ever watched a thread go silent when the wrong person asked the right question, you already know what I’m talking about. So here’s the challenge: Next time you see someone overlooked, speak up. Next time you feel the urge to dismiss, pause. Next time you offer help, ask yourself who you’re really helping—and why.

Because silence isn’t neutral. And community isn’t passive.

 

You spend an inordinate amount of time defending YOUR observations about this forum, which no one really agrees with.

Perhaps it is time you take a break or find a different venue.

This is meant in all seriousness.

[pedaes]

On 8/28/2025 at 9:40 AM, frame-it said:

and a few who have never posted a single photo here but love to comment and reply on stuff

I agree with this observation!

[pgh]

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I never post photos here. I only ever post work to places where I set the context of it.

I see little connection with the amount of photos people post here and the quality of their comments, fwiw. If anyone cares to draw a line, they can look at my website.
 

But the idea that comments hold less value because the person doesn’t post pictures I something I disagree with. The single most helpful voice I’ve seen on this forum, for example, I don’t think ever posts pictures in the image threads. We are all here for different reasons. Not all of us for the image threads. 

Edited August 31 by pgh

[bobtodrick]

26 minutes ago, pgh said:

I never post photos here. I only ever post work to places where I set the context of it.

I see little connection with the amount of photos people post here and the quality of their comments, fwiw. If anyone cares to draw a line, they can look at my website.
 

But the idea that comments hold less value because the person doesn’t post pictures I something I disagree with. The single most helpful voice I’ve seen on this forum, for example, I don’t think ever posts pictures in the image threads. We are all here for different reasons. Not all of us for the image threads. 

I'm divided on this...if someone is commenting on tech issues I completely agree with you.  If on the other hand if they are negatively commenting on an image and they themselves don't post images...I have a bit of a problem with that.

[pgh]

2 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

I'm divided on this...if someone is commenting on tech issues I completely agree with you.  If on the other hand if they are negatively commenting on an image and they themselves don't post images...I have a bit of a problem with that.

Why?

I mean, I kind of maybe get it on a visceral level - you don't want to take advice from someone who is doing something else or has obviously different wants out of photography or yes, who has no idea what they're talking about - but at the same time some of the best critical feedback I've ever gotten on my work has come from non-photographers. Some of the best critics of photography were not photographers. A cursory knowledge of the process helps, yes, but it's a different skill. Idk.

[bobtodrick]

49 minutes ago, pgh said:

Why?

I mean, I kind of maybe get it on a visceral level - you don't want to take advice from someone who is doing something else or has obviously different wants out of photography or yes, who has no idea what they're talking about - but at the same time some of the best critical feedback I've ever gotten on my work has come from non-photographers. Some of the best critics of photography were not photographers. A cursory knowledge of the process helps, yes, but it's a different skill. Idk.

I've sort of always gone by the old axiom....those who can...do.  Those that can't...teach.   Those that can't teach...critique 😂

[LocalHero1953]

No one is obliged to post photos here before they make comments, and I wouldn't criticise them for not doing so. But I pay more attention to the comments of those who I sense have relevant knowledge, experience or talent. Sometimes I can work that out from the comments themselves, but comments on photos and photographic technique are easier to evaluate if I have seen something of that person's own work (can they walk the talk?). Since I'm a casual user of the forum, I don't usually spend time researching their photography published elsewhere. The forum isn't a peer reviewed journal, but equally I don't feel obliged to pay attention to those who express strong opinions or offer advice without any obvious backup. If that means I'm the loser from this approach, so be it.

Edited August 31 by LocalHero1953

[keithlaban.co.uk]

I never post anything on photographic fora without a link to my work and identity and tend to prefer those who do likewise.

Yes, I know I'm open to abuse/spam or worse but believe most other folk appreciate the gesture.

[pgh]

11 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I've sort of always gone by the old axiom....those who can...do.  Those that can't...teach.   Those that can't teach...critique 😂

Todd Papageorge, Cathie Opie, Chris Killip, Minor White, Gregory Crewdson…just a few who are/were university professors - any of whom I’d kill to have the photographic talents of. ☺️

Edited August 31 by pgh

[bobtodrick]

20 minutes ago, pgh said:

Todd Papageorge, Cathie Opie, Chris Killip, Minor White, Gregory Crewdson…just a few who are/were university professors - any of whom I’d kill to have the photographic talents of. ☺️

All were photographers who exhibited.

I was referencing people who criticize without showing any proof that they know what they are talking about.  Big difference.

Example, I have a very well off customer, has a couple M digital and a slew of lenses, and admits he doesn’t really use them…just like their quality… has two Ferrari’s as well (yes I am jealous lol).

I would respect a critique from him far less than someone with an entry level Canon Rebel who takes lots of photos and shows/posts them.

Edited August 31 by bobtodrick