When we ask for help

[Jonas Larsson]

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I came here today with a question. Not a challenge, not a debate—just a genuine request for help. What I received was a familiar pattern: vague replies, assumptions, and silence. Not answers.

This isn’t just about me. It’s about how we treat each other in spaces that claim to be communities. Too often, I see responses shaped not by curiosity or kindness, but by status. Some voices are lifted. Others are ignored. And let’s be honest—those voices are almost always male.

I’ve yet to see a woman participate here. That absence speaks volumes.

So I’m asking—not just what’s wrong with people—but what kind of space we want this to be. Do we want to build a forum where knowledge is shared freely, where newcomers are welcomed, and where respect isn’t reserved for those with gear lists or post counts?

Michelle Obama said, “When they go low, we go high.” I’m choosing to go high. To speak up. To ask better questions. And to expect better answers.

Let’s raise the bar.

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[elmars]

Perhaps you should have a little patience. I saw your question this morning, but I have to work first. I'll answer it now.

[Jonas Larsson]

I hear you. Patience is fine — my point wasn't about waiting. 

 

Edited August 27 by Jonas Larsson

[bobtodrick]

2 hours ago, Jonas Larsson said:

 

I came here today with a question. Not a challenge, not a debate—just a genuine request for help. What I received was a familiar pattern: vague replies, assumptions, and silence. Not answers.

WOW!!!

Been here for 20 years and have found it to be one of the most respectful forums.  Maybe we're not the problem.

[JNK100]

16 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

WOW!!!

Been here for 20 years and have found it to be one of the most respectful forums.  Maybe we're not the problem.

I think you may be right....

[pgh]

I myself can come across as a bit of a crank online, so I hope people give me grace for that.

I hold strong opinions on certain things (opinions always subject to change!). And I’ll disagree plainly when I think it is warranted.

But I will agree with the OP in a sense, only to say that when I have had questions on occasion, there definitely have been some surprising replies that seem to assume a base level of ignorance (and not in such a friendly way, either) - or entail some degree of condescension. Numerically though, they are in the minority. Of course negative interactions stick out so much more than anodyne or positive interactions. And then we all have different communication styles - some personal, some cultural - when speaking about art and photography, I take a little more from art school than perhaps was warranted, but a critical voice is necessary. That’s different than helping others though. 

To offer a counterpoint to the above poster, I joined this forum almost 20 years ago and hardly participated in it for most of the time I was a member, in large part early on because I encountered enough of what the OP mentions to realize I had better ways to spend my time. And calling the person who notes an issue “the problem” is pretty typical of that. Not a hint of reflection. That I am back here now, I’m not sure what that says!

This forum would definitely be a better place with a more diverse contingent (in pretty much every way, but especially socioeconomically - I really hate reading “have a backup” when people are trying to sort out quality issues) but Leica stuff is too expensive for that to ever really happen. 

Don’t shoot the proverbial messenger here. Maybe reflect on the original post. Or don’t. But if you don’t, or if you feel it could not possibly be not aimed at you, then it’s appropriate to just move on as you would anything else you feel irrelevant. 

 

Edited August 27 by pgh

[Jonas Larsson]

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33 minutes ago, bobtodrick said:

WOW!!!

Been here for 20 years and have found it to be one of the most respectful forums.  Maybe we're not the problem.

WOW indeed. It’s fascinating how emotional reactions often arrive before thoughtful engagement. 

[Jonas Larsson]

15 minutes ago, pgh said:

I myself can come across as a bit of a crank online, so I hope people give me grace for that.

I hold strong opinions on certain things (opinions always subject to change!). And I’ll disagree plainly when I think it is warranted.

But I will agree with the OP in a sense, only to say that when I have had questions on occasion, there definitely have been some surprising replies that seem to assume a base level of ignorance (and not in such a friendly way, either) - or entail some degree of condescension. Numerically though, they are in the minority. Of course negative interactions stick out so much more than anodyne or positive interactions. And then we all have different communication styles - some personal, some cultural - when speaking about art and photography, I take a little more from art school than perhaps was warranted, but a critical voice is necessary. That’s different than helping others though. 

To offer a counterpoint to the above poster, I joined this forum almost 20 years ago and hardly participated in it for most of the time I was a member, in large part early on because I encountered enough of what the OP mentions to realize I had better ways to spend my time. And calling the person who notes an issue “the problem” is pretty typical of that. Not a hint of reflection. That I am back here now, I’m not sure what that says!

This forum would definitely be a better place with a more diverse contingent (in pretty much every way, but especially socioeconomically - I really hate reading “have a backup” when people are trying to sort out quality issues) but Leica stuff is too expensive for that to ever really happen. 

Don’t shoot the proverbial messenger here. Maybe reflect on the original post. Or don’t. But if you don’t, or if you feel it could not possibly be not aimed at you, then it’s appropriate to just move on as you would anything else you feel irrelevant. 

 

Thank you for this. Your response is exactly the kind of engagement I hoped for—thoughtful, honest, and reflective. I really appreciate how you’ve added nuance to the conversation, especially around tone, diversity, and the difference between critique and support.

You’ve reminded me that even in spaces where ego can dominate, there are voices willing to listen and speak with care. That means a lot. 

[GFW2-SCUSA]

I'm sorry the OP hasn't found this community to be helpful, that is not my experience. In fact it has been the opposite. This being an international forum (a great strength) we enjoy a variety of tones (for lack of a better term) in the writing. That is the flavoring of the group - sort of like spices. I have posted questions which have recieved gracious and helpful replies and some that fell flat for lack of interest. No one is required to respond. We are all adults (I was going to say "grown-up" but my wife would say that would disqualify me) and as adults we know there is no perfection this side of heaven. This community is strong and helpful enough so I am a paying member - it's worth it to me. I would hope the OP would soon discover this to be a good place made up of good people with a common interest as well as being very welcoming. And there are many women who are active here.
 

[bobtodrick]

35 minutes ago, Jonas Larsson said:

WOW indeed. It’s fascinating how emotional reactions often arrive before thoughtful engagement. 

Oh...I was quite thoughtful 🤣

[Alexander108]

I startet participating in this Forum a while ago and most answers were extremely helpful and respectful. This is my personal experience. 

I'd like to thak everyone who took and tskes the time answering my questions. 

[Qwertynm]

I think a lot of (social) media content is construed to invoke an emotional reaction to maximize engagement of the user, good or bad. So in a way we are trained to read everything with some kind of emotional undertone. Because we have only words here and no actual sound of the words the intention or interpretation of the message can get a bit lost or inaccurate sometimes. Maybe people are being passive aggressive or maybe we just read into it a bit too much sometimes. If you feel everyone is being a prick online maybe step away for couple of days and have a real conversations with your friends. Build something with your hands, rake some leaves or take a long walk. The internet isn’t worth your sanity 

Edited August 27 by Qwertynm

[Jonas Larsson]

8 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

I think a lot of (social) media content is construed to invoke an emotional reaction to maximize engagement of the user, good or bad. So in a way we are trained to read everything with some kind of emotional undertone. Because we have only words here and no actual sound of the words the intention or interpretation of the message can get a bit lost or inaccurate sometimes. Maybe people are being passive aggressive or maybe we just read into it a bit too much sometimes. If you feel everyone is being a prick online maybe step away for couple of days and have a real conversations with your friends. Build something with your hands, rake some leaves or take a long walk. The internet isn’t worth your sanity 

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that tone can be misread online, and stepping away can be helpful. But my post wasn’t about emotional overreaction—it was about patterns of exclusion and condescension that show up consistently, not occasionally.

Suggesting that the issue is just interpretation or burnout misses the point. I’m not asking for perfection—I’m asking for awareness. And that starts with listening, not deflecting.

[Jonas Larsson]

12 hours ago, GFW2-SCUSA said:

I'm sorry the OP hasn't found this community to be helpful, that is not my experience. In fact it has been the opposite. This being an international forum (a great strength) we enjoy a variety of tones (for lack of a better term) in the writing. That is the flavoring of the group - sort of like spices. I have posted questions which have recieved gracious and helpful replies and some that fell flat for lack of interest. No one is required to respond. We are all adults (I was going to say "grown-up" but my wife would say that would disqualify me) and as adults we know there is no perfection this side of heaven. This community is strong and helpful enough so I am a paying member - it's worth it to me. I would hope the OP would soon discover this to be a good place made up of good people with a common interest as well as being very welcoming. And there are many women who are active here.
 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your perspective and the tone you brought to it.

My post wasn’t meant to challenge the existence of good people here—it was meant to highlight how certain dynamics play out, especially when help is filtered through assumptions or status.

I’m glad your experience has been positive. Mine—and others’—hasn’t always been. That’s worth reflecting on, not dismissing.

As for diversity, presence isn’t the same as visibility. If women are here, I’d love to see their voices more clearly represented in the threads themselves.

[frame-it]

3 hours ago, Jonas Larsson said:

My post wasn’t meant to challenge the existence of good people here—it was meant to highlight how certain dynamics play out, especially when help is filtered through assumptions or status.

so polite

But

this place has quite a few bullies

tonnes of armchair experts who copy paste from the net or post what they have read somewhere // seen on youtube, and have probably never even tried the camera or lens in question.

and a few who have never posted a single photo here but love to comment and reply on stuff, and they usually have no examples to share as they never post photos.

and, yes there are also a lot of people here who are great photographers, who post photos, have a lot of knowledge and, can be very helpful

 

Edited August 28 by frame-it

[S Maclean]

I get the jest of the op’s post, but I can’t help by feeling there’s something slightly off about it.

1- wether women participate or not, or men, or aliens, is up to them as individuals. What one would love or expect could be perceived as slightly condescending .
2- this is a forum, not a support group, not customer service….. sometimes we feel the members of a forum owe us an answer…. We don’t. The whole point is to have ANYONE who wants to participate to do so on their own terms, within the rules of the forum and common courtesy. 
3- I 100% agree a negative, rude, or destructive response or commentary is not  ideal or necessary. But a non response is not rude, it’s just not responding. No one here has taken a pledge to respond, support and solve anybody’s questions. And nobody here is paid to do so… and doing so is not a requirement….Those of us that do so, do so on our own accord, based on a shared passion for photography and, in some cases, Leica.

4- if you feel you MUST be answered to, then there’s a problem with the expectation. If you feel your expectations of a good response should be met, by strangers, Proffesionals and hobbyists that are here to share a passion, not work….. then that’s a problem.  If you feel you can or should speak on behalf of women, as an example, instead of focusing on your own needs…. Then that’s a problem. I haven’t seen women ask to be saved here, and out of respect I’m not going to assume the role of savior because that is toxic masculinity at play. Subtle…. but present.

So, point taken, but perhaps not everything is applicable.

And, purely at a personal level; I have found this forum to be exceedingly helpful, human and civil. As much as a group of people from different walks of life and cultures can be socially…. And perhaps, in today’s climate, a little more.

[Jonas Larsson]

2 hours ago, frame-it said:

so polite

But

this place has quite a few bullies

tonnes of armchair experts who copy paste from the net or post what they have read somewhere // seen on youtube, and have probably never even tried the camera or lens in question.

and a few who have never posted a single photo here but love to comment and reply on stuff, and they usually have no examples to share as they never post photos.

and, yes there are also a lot of people here who are great photographers, who post photos, have a lot of knowledge and, can be very helpful

 

Exactly — I think that mix is what makes this place both valuable and frustrating. My hope is we lean more toward the generous side of it.

[Jonas Larsson]

1 hour ago, S Maclean said:

I get the jest of the op’s post, but I can’t help by feeling there’s something slightly off about it.

1- wether women participate or not, or men, or aliens, is up to them as individuals. What one would love or expect could be perceived as slightly condescending .
2- this is a forum, not a support group, not customer service….. sometimes we feel the members of a forum owe us an answer…. We don’t. The whole point is to have ANYONE who wants to participate to do so on their own terms, within the rules of the forum and common courtesy. 
3- I 100% agree a negative, rude, or destructive response or commentary is not  ideal or necessary. But a non response is not rude, it’s just not responding. No one here has taken a pledge to respond, support and solve anybody’s questions. And nobody here is paid to do so… and doing so is not a requirement….Those of us that do so, do so on our own accord, based on a shared passion for photography and, in some cases, Leica.

4- if you feel you MUST be answered to, then there’s a problem with the expectation. If you feel your expectations of a good response should be met, by strangers, Proffesionals and hobbyists that are here to share a passion, not work….. then that’s a problem.  If you feel you can or should speak on behalf of women, as an example, instead of focusing on your own needs…. Then that’s a problem. I haven’t seen women ask to be saved here, and out of respect I’m not going to assume the role of savior because that is toxic masculinity at play. Subtle…. but present.

So, point taken, but perhaps not everything is applicable.

And, purely at a personal level; I have found this forum to be exceedingly helpful, human and civil. As much as a group of people from different walks of life and cultures can be socially…. And perhaps, in today’s climate, a little more.

Fair enough — I don’t see it as a matter of being owed answers, but of what kind of culture we want here. Some people clearly do find the forum welcoming; others just as clearly don’t. That gap is worth reflecting on.

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Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Jonas Larsson]

 Here are the patterns I see worth highlighting:

🛡️ The Defensive Playbook in Action

• Immediate deflection from my specific observation to “general forum dynamics”

• Strawmanning my point—claiming I demanded answers when I noted selective helpfulness

• Weaponizing progressive language against me—calling me condescending or toxic for noticing exclusion

• The classic “works fine for me” dismissal of others’ experiences

🔄 The Revealing Contradictions

• “No one owes anyone help” while simultaneously defending why some people get detailed responses

• Claiming the forum is “exceedingly helpful” while explaining why unhelpful responses are totally fine

• Accusing me of speaking for women while speaking for the entire forum culture themselves

🎯 The Core Dodge

Nobody addressed the actual point.

This forum is a room. Some people walk in and are handed a chair, a mic, and a spotlight. Others stand at the edges, waiting to be acknowledged. I’m not asking for applause. I’m asking why the spotlight keeps swiveling in the same direction.

If you’ve ever watched a thread go silent when the wrong person asked the right question, you already know what I’m talking about. So here’s the challenge: Next time you see someone overlooked, speak up. Next time you feel the urge to dismiss, pause. Next time you offer help, ask yourself who you’re really helping—and why.

Because silence isn’t neutral. And community isn’t passive.

 

[JNK100]

1 hour ago, Jonas Larsson said:

 Here are the patterns I see worth highlighting:

🛡️ The Defensive Playbook in Action

• Immediate deflection from my specific observation to “general forum dynamics”

• Strawmanning my point—claiming I demanded answers when I noted selective helpfulness

• Weaponizing progressive language against me—calling me condescending or toxic for noticing exclusion

• The classic “works fine for me” dismissal of others’ experiences

🔄 The Revealing Contradictions

• “No one owes anyone help” while simultaneously defending why some people get detailed responses

• Claiming the forum is “exceedingly helpful” while explaining why unhelpful responses are totally fine

• Accusing me of speaking for women while speaking for the entire forum culture themselves

🎯 The Core Dodge

Nobody addressed the actual point.

This forum is a room. Some people walk in and are handed a chair, a mic, and a spotlight. Others stand at the edges, waiting to be acknowledged. I’m not asking for applause. I’m asking why the spotlight keeps swiveling in the same direction.

If you’ve ever watched a thread go silent when the wrong person asked the right question, you already know what I’m talking about. So here’s the challenge: Next time you see someone overlooked, speak up. Next time you feel the urge to dismiss, pause. Next time you offer help, ask yourself who you’re really helping—and why.

Because silence isn’t neutral. And community isn’t passive.

 

I can't speak for others; but my view is that this thread should should perhaps be moved. It is clearly not about Q cameras.In fact, I am not really sure what it is about.