Should I go m10 or… (first Leica digital)

[ETrucco]

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Hi folks 

I am sure this has been posted many times but well I need your help.  I can’t wait any longer, it’s time for my “first” Leica digital (I did own an x for a bit but too small, no viewfinder blah blah…).

 

I currently own a Fuji Xpro3 and an xt3 (xt3 I’ll be selling to fund the purchase as well as a few lenses).

I own a cl with the 40 summicron and a 50 summilux which I use often with my xpro3.

So now the conundrum, if I am being budget conscious an MP240 by all means should be it (I have a beautiful black one on hold for 2599, and could get an m10 for 2k more ouch) but part of me thinks even tho it would complicate my budget a bit for a while that the m10 would provide more (iso, WiFi transfer newer so maybe longer life?.  I’ve only held the mp for a few shots and did love it.  By the way I though of a q as I love 28mm (50 is my other go to) but rangefinder itch and since I use manual focus and have the m mount glass I guess a Q could be done in the future (maybe even a dlux8 for pocket ability)

Anyhow, yes it’s a lot. 
 

Any insight to help me reason this out would be welcomed!

Thanks, Eddie

 

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[TomB_tx]

Staying in budget is important, and all Leica M digitals are fine cameras. I skipped the 240 series, but many people still use and like them. The M9 was really all the camera I needed, but I did stretch my budget and got an M10 after a year or so considering it. I still consider the M10 the best digital Leica, but not worth skipping meals to afford it. I assume your CL is the film version since you mention the 40 Summicron, and if so you are already comfortable with the RF and such, so you have little risk that you won't like any M system. You'll like whichever you decide.

[ETrucco]

10 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

Staying in budget is important, and all Leica M digitals are fine cameras. I skipped the 240 series, but many people still use and like them. The M9 was really all the camera I needed, but I did stretch my budget and got an M10 after a year or so considering it. I still consider the M10 the best digital Leica, but not worth skipping meals to afford it. I assume your CL is the film version since you mention the 40 Summicron, and if so you are already comfortable with the RF and such, so you have little risk that you won't like any M system. You'll like whichever you decide.

Thanks for the reply! certainly nothing is worth skipping meals.

Would it be wise with other plans? Not really but I can always find a way.

biggest concerns are low light iso really (not that I can’t take and will my xpro3)

I do appreciate the WiFi photo transfer but is it such a huge deal? I don’t know, I am used to it tho.

Yes, the cl is the film one. I am sure I’ll be fine with a rangefinder. 
 

my plan is to have my m as my edc (currently my xpro3) and have the xpro3 for when I need one hand, autofocus or when I need to do product shots.

wallet and brain says spend less but yeahhh can’t help to try to justify the jump.  Btw the budget is none.  I am technically making it by selling the xt3, a few lenses and records and pedals hahaha.  I just couldn’t hold out… been on this for 4-5 years but wanted to work on my craft before even dipping in so heavy. Originally thought a q for edc but I acquired the summilux and I always knew an m would call.

Edited August 22 by ETrucco

[Chris W]

Out of your choices I prefer the M10. I had an M240 and couldn't get on with the overly warm colour science. The M10 is perfect in my book.

[TomB_tx]

The M10 high ISO and low-light performance is really nice - I like to stay with smaller and slower lenses, and low light isn't a problem.  My Summarit 2.5 35 & 50 are now my main lenses.

I never tried the WiFi capabilities - I just added a half-case with battery flap in the bottom so I can pop out the SD card quickly after a short shooting session - I never collect lots of images on a card (old film habits).

I do appreciate the M10 design that mimics the feel of film Ms, as I've used them for over 50 years.

[ETrucco]

1 minute ago, Chris W said:

Out of your choices I prefer the M10. I had an M240 and couldn't get on with the overly warm colour science. The M10 is perfect in my book.

I appreciate warm a plenty but overly warm? Please tell me more! Portra 400 is my go to in film when I am not going for black and white which is 90% of the time.

[ETrucco]

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Just now, TomB_tx said:

The M10 high ISO and low-light performance is really nice - I like to stay with smaller and slower lenses, and low light isn't a problem.  My Summarit 2.5 35 & 50 are now my main lenses.

I never tried the WiFi capabilities - I just added a half-case with battery flap in the bottom so I can pop out the SD card quickly after a short shooting session - I never collect lots of images on a card (old film habits).

I do appreciate the M10 design that mimics the feel of film Ms, as I've used them for over 50 years.

No collecting lots is smart.  Since I really haven’t held lots of Ms I guess I am safe from the one over the other (although yes the mp can be a brick) 

 

The only slower lens I have is a 35 voigtlander skopar.  
 

I wonder if with the summilux the iso is less an issue with low light and the MP240.  I do document daily life so that’s a must (ask my wife).

 

Instant transfer is read when you are out and taking a break and your significant other ask to see cause she wants to share or your out with some people and want to give them their photo I guess.  Is it a dead end flat I need it? No! But I truly do appreciate it on the X series… but 2k appreciate meh haha

Thank Tom.

 

I am sure both will do.  Trying to be smart and reasonable both which I’ve always struggle with specially with buying guitars haha (I always get great deals there tho hahaha)

 

 

[Chris W]

8 minutes ago, ETrucco said:

I appreciate warm a plenty but overly warm? Please tell me more! 

The RAW images from my M240 were on the orange side. I don't know if it was just my body. Selling it and buying the M10 I hardly have to adjust anything in post, the RAW comes out close to the actual scene I shot, I normally just adjust the exposure, add a bit of contrast and sometimes a little more saturation. 

[Le Chef]

35 minutes ago, Chris W said:

The RAW images from my M240 were on the orange side.

I don’t understand how RAW images have any color. The whole point is you set the color temperature as you want in DNGs, unlike JPGs.

Edited August 22 by Le Chef

[Casey Jefferson]

M-P240 will give you very nice and saturated colors right off the bat, more so than M10. But after shooting with M10(P) it literally feels like a 1.5-2 stops of high ISO performance gain over M-P240.

I now shoot on M10-P and the gain in tech is enormous, the touch screen and silent shutter is really something. But then the files need more work to make them shine, no more SOOC for what I desired. When the lighting is nice and exposure is right the SOOC shot from M-P240 is just so nice.

[ETrucco]

14 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

M-P240 will give you very nice and saturated colors right off the bat, more so than M10. But after shooting with M10(P) it literally feels like a 1.5-2 stops of high ISO performance gain over M-P240.

I now shoot on M10-P and the gain in tech is enormous, the touch screen and silent shutter is really something. But then the files need more work to make them shine, no more SOOC for what I desired. When the lighting is nice and exposure is right the SOOC shot from M-P240 is just so nice.

Based on this which would you grab for EDC?

 

I guess if indoors or out at night the MP is out for you?

Better yet, if you could only have one camera would the M10 be and you’d only consider the 240 if you had something else, say like me and having an xpro3?

[Carlos cruz]

I’ve used both m240 and m10 if you don’t need extra iso and iso selector under your finger, m240 is a  fine sturdy tank of camera. I’d say that iso range is pretty much what one would use in film days. If I was in your shoes I’d rather get m240 and spend différence on travels. I haven’t heard much of m240 having problems with ageing gracefully, just get an extra battery.

[Casey Jefferson]

1 hour ago, ETrucco said:

Based on this which would you grab for EDC?

 

I guess if indoors or out at night the MP is out for you?

Better yet, if you could only have one camera would the M10 be and you’d only consider the 240 if you had something else, say like me and having an xpro3?

Tough question, personally after playing around with M10 and M10-P DNG files I do find them to be different, that I prefer the P over the regular one. Hard to put down in words, some people love the M10 SOOC colors, I can't say I do. M-P240 low light isn't bad, just that you'll have to shoot wide open all the time to maintain cleaner noise and reasonable shutter speed.

So if it's a M10 vs M-P240, it'll be the 240 for me. Or else I'll choose M10-P over either.

[ETrucco]

1 hour ago, Carlos cruz said:

I’ve used both m240 and m10 if you don’t need extra iso and iso selector under your finger, m240 is a  fine sturdy tank of camera. I’d say that iso range is pretty much what one would use in film days. If I was in your shoes I’d rather get m240 and spend différence on travels. I haven’t heard much of m240 having problems with ageing gracefully, just get an extra battery.

I guess realistically I could see up to 6400 according to photos in my library but obviously not the most and I a probably had alternative but depth of field is not always something one wants to sacrifice.

no travel for the next year but great idea.  Local tourism is it unless I’m gigging somewhere else. But great advise anyhow.

[ETrucco]

6 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

Tough question, personally after playing around with M10 and M10-P DNG files I do find them to be different, that I prefer the P over the regular one. Hard to put down in words, some people love the M10 SOOC colors, I can't say I do. M-P240 low light isn't bad, just that you'll have to shoot wide open all the time to maintain cleaner noise and reasonable shutter speed.

So if it's a M10 vs M-P240, it'll be the 240 for me. Or else I'll choose M10-P over either.

Shooting wide open all the time is the worry but not a super concern I guess.

 

if I need more I guess I could always say time to bring the xpro3 instead.

[ETrucco]

I am probably reading my iso needs wrong as I use an apsc camera.  I am correct on this?

[ETrucco]

So far lots prefer the output of the 240.  And well iso not a huge issue but m10 hands down. 
 

so any other features outside size and exterior iso dial that would make one better over the other ?

[Carlos cruz]

6 minutes ago, ETrucco said:

I am probably reading my iso needs wrong as I use an apsc camera.  I am correct on this?

 I hope that camera producers use 18% grey cards, and know how to interpret it. From my experience iso should hold value across formats, cameras etc 

 

Edited August 22 by Carlos cruz

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[Carlos cruz]

12 minutes ago, ETrucco said:

So far lots prefer the output of the 240.  And well iso not a huge issue but m10 hands down. 
 

so any other features outside size and exterior iso dial that would make one better over the other ?

My main rationale to upgrade was iso dial, I really like having easily accessible control over exposure, and less buttons on the back. Never had problem with bigger m240 body, black paint wears rather easily, but camera is for using not for looking at in my opinion. Batteries held charge really nicely. EVF lacked quality both internally and externally. 
 

Just remembered- wide angles, colour vignette with wide lenses (super angulon, skopar 21) or generally those with protruding back element didn’t perform best.  Colour vignette is worse than with m10 or m11

Edited August 22 by Carlos cruz

[ETrucco]

1 hour ago, Carlos cruz said:

 I hope that camera producers use 18% grey cards, and know how to interpret it. From my experience iso should hold value across formats, cameras etc 

 

I mean since a full frame sensor gathers more light does that mean in different size sensors there is an equivalent or would that just be focal length?