Leica CL Sensor - is it as good as the SL2-S?

[Stuart Richardson]

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13 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I find your conclusion that the EVF on the SL is better than that on the SL2-S by a significant margin to be..........well, I would just say, not in my experience.

Nor mine, to be honest. I much preferred the newer viewfinder in the SL2/SL2S. I have the Visoflex that I originally bought for the T, and I use it now with the M10M. I agree that it is a useful, functional EVF, albeit low resolution. It works, but again, the one in the SL2S blows it out of the water, and so does the one in the Q2. Have not used the CL...

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[Stuart Richardson]

4 hours ago, AdjusterBrett said:

 My S1 has stayed around because of the multishot, the 6K photos, and most of all - its low light/high ISO results.  For me - the 6K was a way to cheat the bad AF and still get pretty decent images and the multishot was a way to combat the higher res when needed.  Neither was on the SL2S (or not that I found), and I didn't notice any significant difference in low light/high ISO.  I shot some long lenses (250/2.8 and 400/4) and fund the IBIS was about the same. 

I don't know anything about 6k photos, but the SL2S does have multishot. I used to have an S1 before I got the SL2S. I did really like the S1. I think in many ways they are very comparable in output. I found the low light to be similar, but in my two copies at least the baseline background evenness of the sensor was slightly cleaner in the S1. I do some pretty extreme night video work, so I am talking like IS 50,000 and above. At those rates, the S1 was still very noisy, but it did not suffer much from the reddish corners and edges that often come with extreme ISOs. The SL2S has them a bit worse than the S1. I think this is probably more the baseline tuning at the factory though, and it may differ between individual cameras as much as it does between models. I prefer the handling and color of the SL2S to the S1, so I kept it. I also think multishot was better on the SL2 than it was on the S1 (I mean 100% detail and freedom from artifacts), so I assume it is better on the SL2S as well. 

[AdjusterBrett]

On 9/20/2025 at 4:44 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Nor mine, to be honest. I much preferred the newer viewfinder in the SL2/SL2S. I have the Visoflex that I originally bought for the T, and I use it now with the M10M. I agree that it is a useful, functional EVF, albeit low resolution. It works, but again, the one in the SL2S blows it out of the water, and so does the one in the Q2. Have not used the CL...

Two things.  First (in an attempt to NOT hijack this post) - the S1 EVF in combination with NON- Leica glass (often crappy old stuff - what I can afford or better referred too as 'honey, it was just too good a deal to walk away from" as I stumble home from an in-person auction with 50lbs of old glass to a wife LESS than enthusiastic), has issues.  Focus peaking is driven by the contrast it sees.  Our eyes do not.  In the SL on some of my more pesky glass - the focus is not interfered with by the illumination of focus peaking - it's just my eye and what it sees.  I get BETTER results (and faster) with the SL.  This may be because it projects a BIGGER image than the S1 - or it may be the sensor is cleaner in its signal - do not know - but I LIVE it every day.  Now - on my Sigma dg dn 105 macro - YES the S1 (and subsequently the SL2S) likely wins - but I've never even put that lens on the SL.  Moral of the story - Focus Peaking on a CL or TL2 or SL is a JOKE, period, when you compare to something like a fuji (where it's useful) - IN MY OPINION.  I can SEE clearer on the SL with vintage glass than I can on the S1 (and the SL2S for the two weeks I had it).  POINT of that was to suggest that the TL2 with the VisoFlex - MANAGES to provide me a 'good enough' to focus on static or mostly static targets  (57, but eyesight which seems older, but just older, not wiser)...  I shoot WITHOUT my gasses, as I have issue with them.  I view a computer w/o glasses, but drive with...   My crap polycarbonate classes is just another layer of glass to distort (again - opinion).  The VisoFlex I have works fantastic - and I've shot it on an M10 (admittedly with a lens and body worth more than my entire collection) and found it a great experience vs. the fa-didle-ing with the rangefinder.  For this post the VisoFlex is only offered up as an opportunity to try their M with it, as it did wonders for me (as pathetic as I may hove looked with 25K of pristine Leica in my hands - and then the viewfinder ontop - thankfully my buddy isn't too judgmental).  Hit rate went from 1 in 6 or 8 to one in two, period.

[AdjusterBrett]

On 9/20/2025 at 4:56 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I don't know anything about 6k photos, but the SL2S does have multishot. I used to have an S1 before I got the SL2S. I did really like the S1. I think in many ways they are very comparable in output. I found the low light to be similar, but in my two copies at least the baseline background evenness of the sensor was slightly cleaner in the S1. I do some pretty extreme night video work, so I am talking like IS 50,000 and above. At those rates, the S1 was still very noisy, but it did not suffer much from the reddish corners and edges that often come with extreme ISOs. The SL2S has them a bit worse than the S1. I think this is probably more the baseline tuning at the factory though, and it may differ between individual cameras as much as it does between models. I prefer the handling and color of the SL2S to the S1, so I kept it. I also think multishot was better on the SL2 than it was on the S1 (I mean 100% detail and freedom from artifacts), so I assume it is better on the SL2S as well. 

First - 6k photos is a video burst the unit then turns into stills.  For me - base of roller coaster - we both know no Leica nor Lumix has a hope in hell of clear focus of a 60mph+ coaster barreling down the hill (other fathers with newer Sony do get hits).  So - prefocus (manually), 400mm,  f6.3 or f8 (bright and sunny), ISO 3200, SS maxed or close to it, arm or camera braced on fencepost.  it is about the ONLY way to get shots, period.  The crappy part - you do NOT know which car (or train) your kid is in so you are doing it regularly - but it's easy to delete.  Once you get lucky and your child is on the one you just shot - you go through frame by frame and tell it which to keep.  Be forwarded - it EATS batteries - but it works - ONLY 18mp Jpgs (and you DO need to massage the setting in the camera for contract, saturation, etc - its trial and error)- but they blow away not having anything useful with alternative methods.

Low Light - the SL2S I had at higher ISO had odd colors - granted I'm only looking at the raw image - I shot images of my color passport with vintage (an NOT nice Leica glass - old stuff like an MD 50/1.7 or sigma 28/2.8, or fuji 50/2.2 (near color perfect a lens),a nd then a bunch of faster ones....  The TL2 is useless above 3200 (and it's a stretch even then).  The SL is useless above 6400.  The S1 - the sky seems to be the limit.  One other thing I had issue with was using higher ISO to get the shutter I needed (was looking for 1/1250ish - think flywheel on outboard boat motor at choked idle - need abut this to stop it) - the SL2S was a bit better with colors in daylight with high ISO - but the S1 still looked better - to my eyes.  Further - although DNG and usually plays nicer than the raws out of the Lumix - the HIGH ISO Lumix files do much better in LR (and I'm 'that' guy - as in Lightroom CC or the NON-Classic).  I hear it all the time on the board - SL2S blows away the S1.  And although I'm likely to buy one sooner or later (nature of the beast, character flaw) - it's unlikely to displace the S1 in low light (hence the reason the S1RII is such in interest - high MP with about the same low light/high ISO) - and now a 16 month learning curve with extended menus vs. the 12 month for the S1 (LOL).

Neither of these cameras are useful in this post - but I'd be weary of being a CL in todays market considering the ISO performance (for me) - but if ISO/low light is not of concern - then I still stand by my suggestion of the Visoflex (assuming his M will use it) and try it out before plunking thousands on a solution all seem to think WILL work.  As mentioned - his eyesight is challenged for range finder - then anything BUT static or near static via the CL will not be good - and then you are just zone focusing - something the M does exceptionally well.  Food for thought.

[Steve7]

On 8/1/2025 at 1:59 PM, NightPix said:

 ...I'd appreciate any thoughts on how the images from these camera's might compare when used with M-lenses (low light, colors, dynamic range, noise, etc.). Thanks!

Having not used the SL2-S, I can't comment from experience on your question.  However, there is a site I use to get an idea of how sensors compare in dynamic range and noise:  

https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

The person who does these measurements (Bill Claff) has a good reputation and I have found his site useful.  Using the graph, and the table lower on the page, you can compare his results for the CL and SL2-S.

[jaapv]

On 9/20/2025 at 9:56 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I don't know anything about 6k photos, but the SL2S does have multishot. I used to have an S1 before I got the SL2S. I did really like the S1. I think in many ways they are very comparable in output. I found the low light to be similar, but in my two copies at least the baseline background evenness of the sensor was slightly cleaner in the S1. I do some pretty extreme night video work, so I am talking like IS 50,000 and above. At those rates, the S1 was still very noisy, but it did not suffer much from the reddish corners and edges that often come with extreme ISOs. The SL2S has them a bit worse than the S1. I think this is probably more the baseline tuning at the factory though, and it may differ between individual cameras as much as it does between models. I prefer the handling and color of the SL2S to the S1, so I kept it. I also think multishot was better on the SL2 than it was on the S1 (I mean 100% detail and freedom from artifacts), so I assume it is better on the SL2S as well. 

Yes, the SL2S does have multishot, but only on a tripod. Otherwise the camera will start complaining about movement and freeze up. The Panasonic implementation will allow handheld. 

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

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Did the original S1 have handheld multishot? I don’t remember it having that from when I owned the camera. I do remember the multishot being worse than the one in the SL2. Not the resolution, which is obviously lower, but the quality of the pixel level detail and incidence of stitching artifacts. At least at the time, this was a case where Leica actually had a technical edge over Panasonic. 
As for handheld multishot…well, I would only trust it after seeing it. Sounds like too many unstable variables to make it worth doing over just bringing a tripod. 

[jaapv]

23 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Did the original S1 have handheld multishot? I don’t remember it having that from when I owned the camera. I do remember the multishot being worse than the one in the SL2. Not the resolution, which is obviously lower, but the quality of the pixel level detail and incidence of stitching artifacts. At least at the time, this was a case where Leica actually had a technical edge over Panasonic. 
As for handheld multishot…well, I would only trust it after seeing it. Sounds like too many unstable variables to make it worth doing over just bringing a tripod. 

I (almost) never use it as I prefer LR Enhance or Topaz Gigapixel in the rare case that I need it for a deep crop, but the few times that I experimented on the S5ii handheld it did not disappoint. But I did not experiment often enough - or systematically enough - to form a firm opinion. 

[mpw]

I have the CL. I find focusing manual lens pretty easy without focus peaking. I have adapted M type lens as well as others on the CL with very good results. The camera is light and built well as are all Leica's. The good is that 35m becomes 50m the bad is 35m becomes 50m. The CL is a great walking around camera for street photography. I think you will enjoy the CL as the image quality is great for  24mps.