Why only one Summilux in the SL line up?

[Jeff S]

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59 minutes ago, justru49 said:

....weaker IBIS than SL601! Really?

He’s of course referring to the SL2, in context of the transition from SL601 to SL3. 

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[LD_50]

6 hours ago, Biotar said:

Leica has simply taken the wrong path. If they had released the SL as a non-AF camera, they would have been in their core competence, would not have disappointed false expectations and could offer Summiluxes in the usual quality. As I understood Peter Karbe at the time, the Summilux with AF is already too much of a compromise.

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For my part, I have found my way, the Canon 85 L works well enough with AF and the Otus is the crowning glory.

An SL without AF is a completely different system. There’s no L mount and no point. 

[carlosgavina]

On 7/1/2025 at 6:09 PM, Simone_DF said:

Why even bother with a slow summarit, unless it’s a pancake lens. Everybody else seems to be quite capable at producing high performance F2 small-ish lenses, starting from Sigma and all the way down to other brands

Yes indeed, I think a few lenses that are really small would be nice for a change, since I doubt Leica will create a new set of Summicrons after already having the 35 and 50 — which I dont think are small enough, and the size vs performance is lacking IMO. Was imagining something more like the Sonys FE 28, 40 and 50.

They are very compact, but very very sharp in the center, sharper even than the Sigma's — Not APO sharp, but not too far from it in the center.

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[Biotar]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb LD_50:

An SL without AF is a completely different system. There’s no L mount and no point. 

Why shouldn't Leica offer manual lenses with the best performance, as Zeiss has been doing for years and is even reissuing them?
The SL is not the L-mount ... that's much older. The R was also manual in the world of AF - where is the contradiction here?

[Stuart Richardson]

48 minutes ago, Biotar said:

Why shouldn't Leica offer manual lenses with the best performance, as Zeiss has been doing for years and is even reissuing them?
The SL is not the L-mount ... that's much older. The R was also manual in the world of AF - where is the contradiction here?

Part of it is because Zeiss is not trying to sell a body along with it and they have the luxury of selling niche lenses to a much larger user base. They can just make a few lenses in hope that enthusiasts will buy it. I bet that there are very very few Sony/Nikon owners who use Zeiss lenses that don't also have some AF lenses in their kit. The R system failed because the lenses were not autofocus and cost way more than the much more technologically advanced Japanese competitors. They couldn't do it in 2005, they are certainly not going to get away with it in 2025. There is no point of an SL with only manual focus lenses because Leica already makes or made those lenses. You can use both M and R lenses natively on the SL already...those are super compact and have very high image quality. 

Edited July 4 by Stuart Richardson

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, carlosgavina said:

Yes indeed, I think a few lenses that are really small would be nice for a change, since I doubt Leica will create a new set of Summicrons after already having the 35 and 50 — which I dont think are small enough, and the size vs performance is lacking IMO. Was imagining something more like the Sonys FE 28, 40 and 50.

They are very compact, but very very sharp in the center, sharper even than the Sigma's — Not APO sharp, but not too far from it in the center.

You can get this kit already from both Lumix and Sigma. I'm not sure why Leica should offer it too.

Leica is walking a fine line with the SL system. One the one hand, they want it to sell and make a profit, and on the other hand they are accused of diluting the brand when they release lenses and accessories that some people deem to be impure. It's "poor man's Porsche" syndrome: those who bought the top-of-the-line lenses can't bear to accept that there's a cheaper option, even if it keeps the brand commercially viable. One gets the impression that they would rather have the brand die and stay pure, rather than be debased by gear that more people actually buy.

In the end, the system is what it is. It's better to accept it than it is to shout into the void.

[Slender]

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21 hours ago, justru49 said:

....weaker IBIS than SL601! Really?

SL2 I mean. I used all of them…SL2 is the sweet spot between All Leica archaism and build quality (601 is defo better made…) and the more conventional, less well built mirrorless camera with a Sony sensor the SL3 has become. Lower sync speed; slightly lower IBIS ability, shutter not as well dampened and perhaps even slower than the SL2 in terms of recording and displaying pictures…

I mean no disrespect I was really excited at first but using it I saw then no reason to anymore…

using the newest versions of Lr denoise and with the latest firmware it’s hard to say to oneself that my talent/work would really be uplifted further using an SL3

To bring back on topic the Summilux 50 SL is hands down the lens that impressed me the most ever since it came out 10 years ago. I was torn to get one to complement my SL, M lenses amd 24-90 or…. An S with a couple of primes. I went for the latter for about the same price 🫠

Edited July 4 by Slender

[Slender]

10 years already….

 

 

[Biotar]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Stuart Richardson:

There is no point of an SL with only manual focus lenses because Leica already makes or made those lenses. You can use both M and R lenses natively on the SL already...those are super compact and have very high image quality. 

This is not true, because the solution is not native and without automatic aperture control (M and R) manual focus remains suboptimal.

[Biotar]

In addition to the fast AF lenses, perfect MF lenses can also be successful ... Zeiss is also reissuing Otus - unfortunately without L-mount so far.

[LD_50]

4 hours ago, Biotar said:

Why shouldn't Leica offer manual lenses with the best performance, as Zeiss has been doing for years and is even reissuing them?
The SL is not the L-mount ... that's much older. The R was also manual in the world of AF - where is the contradiction here?

The suggestion was the SL should have been released as a non AF camera. Offering manual lenses is not the same as the SL camera having no AF capability. 

When you state the L mount is not the SL, is much older, what are you referring to? The L mount was introduced with the original TL and a year later the full frame SL. They were clearly designed concurrently. If the SL was going to be manual focus only, the mount never would have been introduced, there’d be no partnerships and no point. 

[LD_50]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

It's "poor man's Porsche" syndrome: those who bought the top-of-the-line lenses can't bear to accept that there's a cheaper option, even if it keeps the brand commercially viable. One gets the impression that they would rather have the brand die and stay pure, rather than be debased by gear that more people actually buy.

I’m not understanding this point. If you buy the “top of the line” lenses, the Summicron APOs (or the 16-35, 24-90, 90-280, or 50 Summilux), there is no cheaper option. 

The common criticism I read, and I’ve made, is that if all Leica is going to introduce is more expensive versions of cheaper lenses (the newer zooms and non APO Summicrons), it does leave the SL system with much  purpose for existence.

If they use these rehoused lenses to fund development of lenses unique to the system, I have no issue. I am not seeing any indication there are more “top of the line” lenses coming from Leica though. 

Edited July 4 by LD_50

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, Biotar said:

Why shouldn't Leica offer manual lenses with the best performance, as Zeiss has been doing for years and is even reissuing them?
The SL is not the L-mount ... that's much older. The R was also manual in the world of AF - where is the contradiction here?

Not much older - a bit over a year from the AF Leica T (April 2014) to SL (October 2015), so the L-mount launch was made with full frame AF in mind - as was obvious from the start, based on it's diameter alone. Leica designed the L-mount for AF, and, I am sure, mainly for full frame. Other brands came on board much later: Panasonic's S1 not till 2019.

The L-mount and SL series gave Leica the opportunity to break free from the heritage M line, where any change from manual rangefinder is unacceptable to its lucrative customer base, and exploit modern technology and new markets.

I'm not sure what you're asking for other than a new R-system - and we know what that did to Leica.

Leica is offering manual lenses with the best performance - they're labelled with an M.

Edit. I see @LD_50 has replied along the same lines, just as I was writing.

Edited July 4 by LocalHero1953

[Biotar]

Basically, I just wanted to point out that it would have been tactically better to release the SL as an MF camera with the option of using AF lenses. Leica would have disappointed fewer AF expectations and had more scope to develop the best lenses (with slow AF like SL-Lux or without AF).

vor 26 Minuten schrieb LD_50:

If they use these rehoused lenses to fund development of lenses unique to the system, I have no issue. I am not seeing any indication there are more “top of the line” lenses coming from Leica though. 

that's how I see it too

Edited July 4 by Biotar

[LD_50]

6 minutes ago, Biotar said:

Basically, I just wanted to point out that it would have been tactically better to release the SL as an MF camera with the option of using AF lenses. Leica would have disappointed fewer AF expectations and had more scope to develop the best lenses (with slow AF like SL-Lux or without AF).

that's how I see it too

The “SL as an MF camera with the option of using AF lenses” is an AF camera. That’s what they released.

They just haven’t released L mount MF lenses, which is a completely different plan than releasing an MF camera. 

I agree with others here, if you want MF lenses on the SL, shoot M or R with the adapters. 

[Biotar]

... for me a reliable AF performance as a portrait lens

[Biotar]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb LD_50:

I agree with others here, if you want MF lenses on the SL, shoot M or R with the adapters. 

No, because they have no aperture control. 😉

[BernardC]

21 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

If they use these rehoused lenses to fund development of lenses unique to the system, I have no issue. I am not seeing any indication there are more “top of the line” lenses coming from Leica though. 

No one saw the 28-70 zoom coming either, until a few days prior to release. I think that Leica has learned their lesson about announcing lenses before they are ready.

I think that the "missing" 24mm APO lens will be in the new medium format mirrorless system. Maybe there will be an adapter for L mount, or maybe not. Beyond that I would love to see a wider APO lens, like an 18 or 19, and I know that some people want a 135, and a longer macro. Other than that, there aren't any significant gaps in the APO lineup. We can daydream about super-telephoto APO lenses, similar to what the R system offered, but who would buy them? Nikon and Canon already offer such lenses, and they charge over $10,000 for each one. 

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[Biotar]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb LD_50:

The “SL as an MF camera with the option of using AF lenses” is an AF camera. That’s what they released.

They just haven’t released L mount MF lenses, which is a completely different plan than releasing an MF camera. 

If they had released top MF lenses simultaneously, then it would have been clear and the poor AF performance would not have undermined the system.

[LD_50]

3 minutes ago, BernardC said:

No one saw the 28-70 zoom coming either, until a few days prior to release. I think that Leica has learned their lesson about announcing lenses before they are ready.

I think that the "missing" 24mm APO lens will be in the new medium format mirrorless system. Maybe there will be an adapter for L mount, or maybe not. Beyond that I would love to see a wider APO lens, like an 18 or 19, and I know that some people want a 135, and a longer macro. Other than that, there aren't any significant gaps in the APO lineup. We can daydream about super-telephoto APO lenses, similar to what the R system offered, but who would buy them? Nikon and Canon already offer such lenses, and they charge over $10,000 for each one. 

I hope you’re right that more unique lenses are coming. I think the APO lineup is pretty complete. I’d like to see a portrait length Summilux next.