Why only one Summilux in the SL line up?

[phojomatic]

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I heard a dealer whisper that a new 50mm lux v2 is on the way…hence the reason it was discontinued. But then another whisper that it was discontinued bc it wasn’t selling well (and since they make these in batches, not worth making another batch to hang around.

Also puzzling is why Leica only made the 35/50 Asph Panasonic clones, since Pamo also has a very good 24 and 85 in the same lineup (100 2.8 macro too). When the 35/50 Asph SL came out, I was told it’s a one-off thing, they aren’t going to make the 24 and 85 which I just think is crazy. 

I do t ever see Leica making a clone of the 85 1.4 sigma bc then you would have a much lower cost lux, and not in the same league as native Leica glass. 
 

so I think Leica has painted themselves in a corner with the SL system…sadly. 

[phojomatic]

Also fwiw, I tested out the 50mm Lux SL and agree it has such a great character.  It also focuses much faster on the SL3s. Enough that I might buy a good used copy. 

[Simone_DF]

55 minutes ago, Leicaboy Norway said:

Canon has a 85 mm 1.2 that is TACK sharp wide open. I used to own it 

I haven't used the 90 apo f2 but let's be honest there's a huge difference between the two 

But have you seen how big that lens is? Its weight is in the same ballpark of the Summilux, but it's even fatter. To me the Sigma 85mm 1.4 looks like the most sensible compromise between performance, size/weight and aperture, if you're looking for a portrait lens with an aperture faster than f2, otherwise the 90 apo, which I had, is another great option.

 

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[Simone_DF]

41 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

Also puzzling is why Leica only made the 35/50 Asph Panasonic clones, since Pamo also has a very good 24 and 85 in the same lineup (100 2.8 macro too).

Because 85 is too close to both 75 and 90mm, which are more traditional Leica lenses.

As for the 24mm, it was discontinued even for M mount, so they probably believe it won't sell well. Moreover, there are 3x Sigma 24mm variants plus the Panasonic, how many are going to fork out for yet another rebadge?  

[Leicaboy Norway]

10 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

But have you seen how big that lens is? Its weight is in the same ballpark of the Summilux, but it's even fatter. To me the Sigma 85mm 1.4 looks like the most sensible compromise between performance, size/weight and aperture, if you're looking for a portrait lens with an aperture faster than f2, otherwise the 90 apo, which I had, is another great option.

 

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Yes I have. I used to own it. It's big but manageable... It's probably sharper than the Summilux sl 50 1.4 from what I've read too.

The canon RF 50 1.2 is also sharp wide open and probably smaller than the Summilux 50 sl

 

Leica should add these options imo

[phojomatic]

28 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Because 85 is too close to both 75 and 90mm, which are more traditional Leica lenses.

As for the 24mm, it was discontinued even for M mount, so they probably believe it won't sell well. Moreover, there are 3x Sigma 24mm variants plus the Panasonic, how many are going to fork out for yet another rebadge?  

Good points, but my thinking on adding the 24/85 Asph is to complete a set of lower cost primes, for video/hybrid use. A 24-70mm not quite the same. 
 

Aldo my thinking is that an 85mm 1.4 has a much different use than a 90/2.0 apo, which is an amazing lens. 
 

I think Leica missed positioning the SL out of the gate (and I’m a huge SL fan/user of each variant). Maybe instead of the ultimate zooms and 50/Lux to start, a 35, 85 and 70-200 could have brought in the market that is dominated by Sony Canon Nikon. 
 

I’d still love to see Leica primes other than 2.0 as well. 
 

 

[LD_50]

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54 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

Good points, but my thinking on adding the 24/85 Asph is to complete a set of lower cost primes, for video/hybrid use. A 24-70mm not quite the same. 
 

Aldo my thinking is that an 85mm 1.4 has a much different use than a 90/2.0 apo, which is an amazing lens. 
 

I think Leica missed positioning the SL out of the gate (and I’m a huge SL fan/user of each variant). Maybe instead of the ultimate zooms and 50/Lux to start, a 35, 85 and 70-200 could have brought in the market that is dominated by Sony Canon Nikon. 
 

I’d still love to see Leica primes other than 2.0 as well. 
 

 

Leica isn’t bringing in the market dominated by Canon, Nikon, and Sony. They are priced far too high, with too limited retail presence, too limited service options, and too limited rental options. Lens options will always be secondary to price to make a dent in that market. 

[Leicaboy Norway]

11 hours ago, phojomatic said:

Aldo my thinking is that an 85mm 1.4 has a much different use than a 90/2.0 apo, which is an amazing lens. 

You are right

Most camera manufacturers do this for a reason.

There should be a 1.4 and a 1.8/2 where the latter usually are more sharp wide open and smaller in size and the former is the more "extreme" version for low light photography or dreamy wide open larger size camera. 

I have the sigma 85 dg dn 1.4 and it's a good lens but Leica themselves should have more SL prime options IMO.

[LocalHero1953]

I have made the shocking and irresponsible choice to buy and be satisfied with a 'Summilux' 85 badged by Sigma for about a fifth of the price Leica would have charged. I know I should have held out for a Leica badged version and paid over another £4000+ just to keep those poor gnomes in Wetzlar off the bread line.

Please beat me up - I feel so guilty, I don't think I'll get over it.

[Olaf_ZG]

@LocalHero1953cause of you I bought the Sigma 85/1.4 but after some tries it is up for sale. It simply doesn’t draw as nice as the SL lux in the way I use it (nearby portraits). 
I doubt that if Leica would rebadge it, there will be much difference between the Leica and the Sigma, so that I won’t buy either.

If they come up with their own design, I for sure might be interested.

However, I don’t think that would happen.

[Qwertynm]

17 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

It simply doesn’t draw as nice as the SL lux in the way I use it (nearby portraits).

Please excuse my derailing of the thread here. I just looked trough your gallery of portraits on your website am in awe - you're a great photographer for sure. Some of the images strike me as really 3D-looking. Do you think this has to do with the focal length, the lighting, the used f-stop (seems pretty wide open as some ears are already oof) or do you attribute that to the lens you're using. Maybe a combination of all of the factors? I feel like a thigther angle of view would flatten the images more - have you experimented with this look that you could give some insight? thanks

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

@LocalHero1953cause of you I bought the Sigma 85/1.4 but after some tries it is up for sale. It simply doesn’t draw as nice as the SL lux in the way I use it (nearby portraits). 
I doubt that if Leica would rebadge it, there will be much difference between the Leica and the Sigma, so that I won’t buy either.

If they come up with their own design, I for sure might be interested.

However, I don’t think that would happen.

I like them both, but I'm not a great user of 50mm for close portraits.

[Olaf_ZG]

10 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

Please excuse my derailing of the thread here. I just looked trough your gallery of portraits on your website am in awe - you're a great photographer for sure. Some of the images strike me as really 3D-looking. Do you think this has to do with the focal length, the lighting, the used f-stop (seems pretty wide open as some ears are already oof) or do you attribute that to the lens you're using. Maybe a combination of all of the factors? I feel like a thigther angle of view would flatten the images more - have you experimented with this look that you could give some insight? thanks

Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate it!

 I think it is all coming together: me loving this lens, which does a great job for nearby portraits. Me loving 50mm, the f1.4 as well the big windows in combination with a simple but big umbrella. And of course some posing, processing and having fun.

a tighter angle means I have to move a bit backwards, meaning I would loose some intimacy… people nowadays are used to 28mm, so this is tighter already.

I use the 24-90 if I need to go wider (double portrait) and they are ok as well, but the Lux is simply my lens.

 

[helged]

11 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

@LocalHero1953cause of you I bought the Sigma 85/1.4 but after some tries it is up for sale. It simply doesn’t draw as nice as the SL lux in the way I use it (nearby portraits). 
I doubt that if Leica would rebadge it, there will be much difference between the Leica and the Sigma, so that I won’t buy either.

If they come up with their own design, I for sure might be interested.

However, I don’t think that would happen.

+1. (From another that has the Sigma 85 on sale). 

 

12 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate it!

 I think it is all coming together: me loving this lens, which does a great job for nearby portraits. Me loving 50mm, the f1.4 as well the big windows in combination with a simple but big umbrella. And of course some posing, processing and having fun.

a tighter angle means I have to move a bit backwards, meaning I would loose some intimacy… people nowadays are used to 28mm, so this is tighter already.

I use the 24-90 if I need to go wider (double portrait) and they are ok as well, but the Lux is simply my lens.

 

+1. 50Lux paints beautifully, even for distant landscapes at f1.4. If I should pick two L-mount lenses, it would be SL24-90 and SL50Lux. Three+ lenses, add SL21APO and SL35APO. That's me. Re macro, Sigma 105mm is very, very good (but the focus is slow, somewhat unrealibe, so I use it mostly as a manual lens). 

[Leslie22]

My 50 SL Summilux is almost permanently set to 1.4 , love the look, my favourite SL lens …. Sadly weight and size are the price 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think Leica looked at the market and tried to figure out what they could do better than any other company. That was to make a series of APO Summicrons with astounding image quality, all in the same body shell that was a fairly reasonable size that paired well with the body and were as close to a matched cinema set in look as is available in stills photography, other than with their own S lenses. I think their summilux is a fantastic lens, but it is clearly something that is easier to find in the market -- giant high speed lenses with great image quality are now available in every mount, even L mount from Sigma and Panasonic (remember, their 50 1.4 is extremely close in image quality and look to the 50mm Summilux). As far as I am aware, there are no alternatives to the apo summicrons. Certainly not in a range of primes from 21-90 all with the same speed, form factor and look. Doing something like that for the Summiluxes would be very impractical.

The weight alone would probably be 12kg for a bag of standard primes. Maybe that is what happened...the person testing them died after they were trapped under their camera bag. 

[Planetwide]

This is just my opinion, for what it's worth. But I feel the Leica has lost its way with the SL system. Leica had/has one singular advantage over other competing brands, and that is its lenses. Specifically, Leica designed and built lenses. Many of us have, and still do, put up with subpar AF and other idiosyncrasies - and why you ask? Well, it's for the absolute image quality delivered by the Leica designed SL glass. Even their zooms are exceptional. IMHO, rebadging Sigma and Panasonic lenses essentially moves Leica away from this core advantage that the SL system had. While the rebadged lenses are good, they are not compelling, especially when you consider that the same lenses are available for much lower cost. For that matter, a Sony, Canon, or Nikon system would be a better buy. Yes, the SL system has the ability to use M glass, but it lacks in many other area's. No F1.4's, F1.2's, or fast AF etc... Honestly, the 50 'lux and 90-280mm are the lenses that keep me in the system for now....

[Biotar]

Leica has simply taken the wrong path. If they had released the SL as a non-AF camera, they would have been in their core competence, would not have disappointed false expectations and could offer Summiluxes in the usual quality. As I understood Peter Karbe at the time, the Summilux with AF is already too much of a compromise.

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For my part, I have found my way, the Canon 85 L works well enough with AF and the Otus is the crowning glory.

[Slender]

I agree with the views that rebadging Sigma or Pana lenses is a weird move, but maybe they want to use the "gateway to the brand or system" strategy that worked (unexpectedly) so well with the Q?

All the weight saving and and build quality trend downward ( we went from full aluminium unibody design for the SL601 down to classic magnesium sandwich frame for the SL3, admitidely with a weaker IBIS and shutter....) does come from the feedback Leica gets in their R&D panels... I mean in person panels, not just online questionaires....

Lets face it the biggest issue of Leica as a brand is its customer age-base.... its hard-work enough to build and carry a fat-wallet in this economy and most high-end passionated hobbyist who have, they dont want to carry heavy gear... they dont mind buying it and collecting it but they get tired lugging it around.

And that's okay because this is how I was able to afford my SL2 and 24/90 second hand lol 😅😜 only a few month after it came out, in pristine condition and at a great price (seller was just THE number one buyer of leica in Brussels, he basically has his name on everything that comes out before it is even announced... just because he can and loves it.... carrying it all day is another story and that is where young hungry professionals can pick it up ahaha)

Edited July 3 by Slender

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[justru49]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Slender:

All the weight saving and and build quality trend downward ( we went from full aluminium unibody design for the SL601 down to classic magnesium sandwich frame for the SL3, admitidely with a weaker IBIS and shutter....) does come from the feedback Leica gets in their R&D panels... I mean in person panels, not just online questionaires....

....weaker IBIS than SL601! Really?