Trade in 35mm APO-M for a 35mm 1.4 Lux?

[smkoush]

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I had both (APO and FLE), and did some basic comparison which you can see in a series of posts on this thread: 

 

I sold the APO, and use the FLE constantly, but I do miss two things from the APO which in my opinion really set it apart: 1) color saturation (more vibrant colors compared to the FLE), and 2) flatness of field. Sharpness is more or less similar on day to day situations (stopped down), and I wouldn't choose one over the other because of sharpness, but color saturation and flatness of field differences were apparent (more sticking differences visible in DNG, not posted jpg). And yes, even though the FLE barely has any purple fringing (that can easily be corrected in Lightroom), the APO is completely free from it.  

 

[odoomi]

I disagree with the flatness of field comment. I did send the Apo back and kept with the FLE because of strange lens distortion after editing in CaptureOne. If you are a Lightroom User, the distortion will be computed out. If you are - like me - CaptureOne User, there will be strong and strange distortion visible with the Apo wonderlens... really a pity (not even considered analog usage!)!

Best

Andreas  

[Crem]

19 hours ago, Al Brown said:

As I wrote many times here, the proper, brand new 35 FLE does NOT suffer from CA.

Al, I would love to compare your lens side by side as I've seen you mention this a few times. I also think you make great photos and clearly know what you are doing. So I made up a reproducible test to demonstrate what I see. It's a green tint on high contrast areas that are behind the plane of focus. To reproduce:

1. Set focus to minimum. This is ~0.7 since my v1 doesn't do close focus. Aperture at F1.4.
2. Turn on live view.
3. Walk up to the test chart until the letters are perfectly in focus. No green fringing at all.
4. Walk backwards slowly and watch the letters start to go out of focus. The letters are now behind the point of focus.
5. At a certain distance, the green really becomes obvious on a high resolution sensor at 100%. In strong lighting this can happen at F1.4 & F2, but really clears up at F2.8 and beyond.

I specifically ran this test without any strong lighting such as sun reflections on metal. If I did that, it would be worse. I assume the 35 APO would show absolutely zero green, but I don't have one to test. I also expect the 35 APO to look less harsh overall like where I see the criss-cross pattern in the letter "A". I'm very curious if your lens does this and if Leica can fix these lenses. My understanding is they all do what I demonstrate here.

The above is why I would never sell a 35 APO for a FLE. I realize not everyone will agree.

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Edited May 21 by Crem

[Crem]

19 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

What you demonstrated is the bare minimal CA of FLE which will always be there due to laws of physics and you also showed FLE's ugly nervous bokeh. It is AMAZINGLY corrected for what it is. The CA of 35 FLE should NOT be disturbing for 99% of use cases.
BUT!
There are quite a few 35 FLEs that exhibit brutal CA like in the sample below from my previous copy, which is NOT normal.
Demonstrating side by side a bad copy wide open vs. my latest OK copy (as it should be), shot at f/1.4 and uncorrected, proper conditions of backlit shiny water.
The right image is what a 35 FLE image shoud look like SOOC.

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Thanks for all this. I can confirm I’ve never seen anywhere near that amount of purple with mine.   That’s basically unusable even on a smartphone. 

[justj]

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35 flv v2. It handles CA very well, it's there but you really have to look hard. Sooc cropped. I love the lens, you have to buy a silver one by law if you have a m11 safari. 

[Crem]

2 minutes ago, justj said:

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35 flv v2. It handles CA very well, it's there but you really have to look hard. Sooc cropped. I love the lens, you have to buy a silver one by law if you have a m11 safari. 

Your lens performs like mine. I immediately zoomed in on those high contrast squares in the background which have the green tinted edges. For what it’s worth, I don’t see this on the 50 lux ASPH at 1.4. It’s also much less on the 28 cron v2 (comparing both at f2). I think my eyes are highly tuned to green and I need to learn to ignore it 😀

[evikne]

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I'm glad I only use older lenses (pre-ASPH). Because I know they're not perfect anyway, and then I can relax and concentrate on other (and more important?) things. 😉

[Smudgerer]

On 5/20/2025 at 10:39 AM, patrickcolpron said:

Hell no! Never in a 100 years ... 

I wouldn't either for the same reason, the 35 FLE suffers from CA and it is very annoying. I wouldn't get the new Leica 35/1.2 until I can test it for myself because Voigtlander is at their 4th version of this lens and it will be difficult for Leica to do much better at the price difference the Leica lens will command. 

If I was you, I would look for a reasonably priced second hand 35 FLE version one, I have both and very seldom use the FLE, preferring the APO over the FLE. I also prefer the New Steel Rim over the APO because the New Steel Rim is great against the light and doesn't suffer any CA as opposed to the FLE yet flares beautifully, the flare is very controlled at f/1.7 onward plus it is much smaller than the FLE.

As such if you can live with a minimum focusing distance of 1 meter, find a New Steel Rim on the second market to complement your APO, do not sell the APO, you will regret it. I seldom use the FLE, using the New Steel Rim on film and the APO on digital while my FLE gathers dust. The New Steel Rim is so small, you can bring it with you and swap the APO at times without having too much extra weight on you.

I tend to agree with this, I think this is where Voigtlander shines, special lenses with special character at affordable prices, a different paint brush for a different rendering. It is the one lens I want from Voigtlander, now can they make it in brass and black paint please.

A lot of common sense here, as usual Patrick.

I agree wholeheartedly regarding the 'Lux SR re-issue, if only Leica had not royally buggered up the lens hood and filter fitments, ( and made it available in black without doubling the price ),  it would have been just perfect out of the gate. If one cannot fork out the mega €€€€ for the APO the 35 Lux re-issue is the one to go for in my opinion.

As said earlier in this thread I am more than happy with my Summicron 35's, the V4 and the ASPH, optically more than fine and their sizing / haptics are perfect for an M, even more so than the APO for me.

But all said, and being primarily a 35mm FL user with too many of them already, if a mint 35 APO was offered to me for say €2K I'd snatch the seller's arm off.

[pgk]

3 hours ago, evikne said:

I'm glad I only use older lenses (pre-ASPH). Because I know they're not perfect anyway, and then I can relax and concentrate on other (and more important?) things. 😉

But being happy with your lenses is clearly not as easy as all that. I have a set which suit me. Not perfect, but more than adequate for my needs. And in 40+ years of professional photography I've never had a complaint from a client based on any lens I've ever used (that's a lot of lenses, as in too many really).

[Crem]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

That is because lux 50 ASPH is also APO, but unmarked.

Agreed and that I expected. I didn’t expect the 28 cron v2 to do better than the FLE. Both at f2. Less green on the 28. 

Edited May 21 by Crem

[Derbyshire Man]

I've never seen chromatic aberration in the FLE. I love the busy bokeh.

That may be because I nearly entirely shoot in monochrome.

If people are paying they can have any lens they want!

[Crem]

50 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I've never seen chromatic aberration in the FLE. I love the busy bokeh.

That may be because I nearly entirely shoot in monochrome.

If people are paying they can have any lens they want!

I’m surprised you have never seen it. Every copy is going to have some LoCA if you look for it. It’s not an huge deal though and never ruins a photo. It’s always on high contrast edges in the out of focus areas. It’s only annoyed me in a small percentage of files where it was a real pain to fix in post. I do find myself stoping down to f2.8 if I think it’s going to be a problem (or using live view to pre-check). 

I agree on the bokeh. It’s a unique look among my collection and I like it for what it is. It’s definitely busy/nervous, but I do find it pleasing. It seems to be a polarizing issue for this lens. 

I suspect the new 35 1.2 is going to have much different bokeh from the 1.4. So people will have a lot of choice as to what rendering they prefer. Leica could use a fast 35 with bokeh more like the 50 lux or 28 cron. This is a pure guess on the 1.2 and I have no info on it. 

[Crem]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

This is a fun thread: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/312762-28mm-summicron-asph-v2-or-35mm-summilux-fle/

 

@Al Brown any chance you would know if I'd seem less green CA on high contrast edges with the cron 35 asph compared to the FLE (at f2 of course)? I read through your link and did some more testing of the FLE vs cron 28. Definitely less on the cron 28 vs the FLE at f2. Shooting a bunch this AM with the FLE really reminded me of how wonderful it is. I've ignored mine for far too long.

[mottykytu]

26 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

And here is another textbook film school example of FLE wide open where fringing would naturally occur galore. It does not. SOOC image at f/1.4, NO CA corrections, all within minimal tolerance of the laws of physics. Soft FX filter from Tiffen mounted on the lens.

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I have heard that the the main reason to buy FLE is to make the close focus and the @ f/1.4 IQ much sharper, isn't the soft filter diminish the quality of the FLE?

Nice photo and nice color btw !

Edited May 21 by mottykytu

[patrickcolpron]

When we spend a whole lot of money on camera equipment we tend to attribute qualities which they lack, or ignore faults.

The 35 Summilux FLE both version 1 and Version 2 (close focusing) do show CA, both purple and green fringing, same goes with the 50 Summilux ASPH version 1 and the close focusing version 2, some of you will have seen the same Peter Karbe interview I saw, and know it is also an APO lens, do not despair - the APO 50 Summicron also show CA, purple and green fringing in some instances. 

Are they a deal breaker when it comes to selecting a lens? No, but to claim they are CA free is ... either living with a blindfold on, being delusional or being blind to one's lens fault,  because you paid a lot of money for it.

The 35 Summilux FLE is a great lens, the bokeh can be busy and not as pleasing as older lenses but still a great lens, I like the FLE Bokeh just do not like its size with a lens hood on and the CA it has is not pleasing.

Also be aware that the 35 Summilux FLE Version 1 has better a slightly better rendition than Version 2 because Leica moved the aperture blade forward on version 2 to allow space for the close focusing mechanism, this changes the nature of the out of focus rendition ever so slightly, it is not as good as the lens it replaces, not much of a difference but I see it. 

Anyhoo all of this to say there is CA with the 35 FLE, both on older and newer lenses, and on both version 1 and version 2 lens. 

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Of course I had to go make a photo to show some sort of CA from it... because it is there. 

This is but one example where you can see purple fringing, not the worst I have seen from this lens, just one I made yesterday because I don't want to search in my banks of images for past sample with CA from the FLE. At times it is green fringing and other time it will show, as in the sample above, purple fringing. 

This will not get better with higher megapixel sensors. 

All of this to say, the FLE has CA, it is normal, it is a wide angle lens, pretty much unavoidable - just know that the 50 ASPH and the APO 50 also show CA, both in older and newer lenses.

It is not because you pay Leica prices for a Leica lens that it is perfect and it is not because Leica says it is APO (or not) that these lenses are 100% corrected. With today's modern high resolution lenses and digital sensors it is pretty much unavoidable.

[mottykytu]

3 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

When we spend a whole lot of money on camera equipment we tend to attribute qualities which they lack, or ignore faults.

The 35 Summilux FLE both version 1 and Version 2 (close focusing) do show CA, both purple and green fringing, same goes with the 50 Summilux ASPH version 1 and the close focusing version 2, some of you will have seen the same Peter Karbe interview I saw, and know it is also an APO lens, do not despair - the APO 50 Summicron also show CA, purple and green fringing in some instances. 

Are they a deal breaker when it comes to selecting a lens? No, but to claim they are CA free is ... either living with a blindfold on, being delusional or being blind to one's lens fault,  because you paid a lot of money for it.

The 35 Summilux FLE is a great lens, the bokeh can be busy and not as pleasing as older lenses but still a great lens, I like the FLE Bokeh just do not like its size with a lens hood on and the CA it has is not pleasing.

Also be aware that the 35 Summilux FLE Version 1 has better a slightly better rendition than Version 2 because Leica moved the aperture blade forward on version 2 to allow space for the close focusing mechanism, this changes the nature of the out of focus rendition ever so slightly, it is not as good as the lens it replaces, not much of a difference but I see it. 

Anyhoo all of this to say there is CA with the 35 FLE, both on older and newer lenses, and on both version 1 and version 2 lens. 

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Of course I had to go make a photo to show some sort of CA from it... because it is there. 

This is but one example where you can see purple fringing, not the worst I have seen from this lens, just one I made yesterday because I don't want to search in my banks of images for past sample with CA from the FLE. At times it is green fringing and other time it will show, as in the sample above, purple fringing. 

This will not get better with higher megapixel sensors. 

All of this to say, the FLE has CA, it is normal, it is a wide angle lens, pretty much unavoidable - just know that the 50 ASPH and the APO 50 also show CA, both in older and newer lenses.

It is not because you pay Leica prices for a Leica lens that it is perfect and it is not because Leica says it is APO (or not) that these lenses are 100% corrected. With today's modern high resolution lenses and digital sensors it is pretty much unavoidable.

Are you using the M11 ? they said 60 Megapixel sensor make the CA much more pop !

[patrickcolpron]

11 minutes ago, mottykytu said:

Are you using the M11 ? they said 60 Megapixel sensor make the CA much more pop !

My apologies should have specified this photo was made with an M10-R 

[mottykytu]

4 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

My apologies should have specified this photo was made with an M10-R 

Ah, that explain a lot, the 40 Megapixel also show more CA than the standard 24 Megapixel.
That's why Modern (expensive) lens is need for mordern Digital Leica (from the M-10R)

[patrickcolpron]

6 minutes ago, mottykytu said:

Ah, that explain a lot, the 40 Megapixel also show more CA than the standard 24 Megapixel.
That's why Modern (expensive) lens is need for mordern Digital Leica (from the M-10R)

If I remember correctly the CA from the 35 FLE was more visible on the M9, when I first use the FLE in 2010 but that was while using an early lens. It also seemed more visible on the regular M10, it was more visible on these lower pixel sensors than they are on higher megapixel sensors, I didn't need to zoom in at all to really notice it. 

It is as if the bigger the pixel are, the more visible it is, the dispersion affects a bigger part of the sensor with bigger pixels if that makes sense - I like where this is going and it would needs further testing using both an M11 and M10 to compare the difference with the same lens. 

Is it less or more visible with smaller pixels, or is that fringe smaller? 

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Hallo,

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[Derbyshire Man]

3 hours ago, Crem said:

I’m surprised you have never seen it. Every copy is going to have some LoCA if you look for it. It’s not an huge deal though and never ruins a photo. It’s always on high contrast edges in the out of focus areas. It’s only annoyed me in a small percentage of files where it was a real pain to fix in post. I do find myself stoping down to f2.8 if I think it’s going to be a problem (or using live view to pre-check). 

I agree on the bokeh. It’s a unique look among my collection and I like it for what it is. It’s definitely busy/nervous, but I do find it pleasing. It seems to be a polarizing issue for this lens. 

I suspect the new 35 1.2 is going to have much different bokeh from the 1.4. So people will have a lot of choice as to what rendering they prefer. Leica could use a fast 35 with bokeh more like the 50 lux or 28 cron. This is a pure guess on the 1.2 and I have no info on it. 

I was joking, chromatic aberration is not going to be directly obvious in the same way in black and white, what with it being chromatic. It is still there of course and visible if you flip backward and forward.

My guess is that if there were no *chromatic* aberration there'd be no need for a more expensive *apochromatic* lens in the first place!

I shoot on a used FLE 1