Anything New Expected at PMA?

[marknorton]

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We're all expecting significant thinks at Photokina this year - my flights costing a heady $2.28 + tax are booked - but I'm wondering whether there will be anything new announced at PMA.

 

Anyone heard any rumours?

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[stephengilbert]

Here are some PMA rumors at The Online Photographer: THEONLINEPHOTOGRAPHER.COM

 

One, listed as "Possible," is an M9: "Leica M9 will replace M8. Probably won't be shipping anytime soon if it does appear. Remember the ultra-dependable old adage: 'Leica makes haste slowly.'

 

"Another interesting rumor has Leica branding its own version of the E-3. No telling, but if it comes with a corollary promise of prime Summicrons for the 4/3rds system, I'll jump on board and hope along with the best of 'em. Some pipe dreams are too important to be put off by little things like reality."

 

I enjoy TOP, but have no idea how much credence to put in the rumors he cites. Read at your own risk.

[ho_co]

Stephen--

Remember also that Mike J is the guy whose test of an M8 included guessing the distance to an object, setting his guess on the lens, and handing the camera to someone else to check with the rangefinder how close Mike's guess was. Spot on, of course!

 

Interesting rumor, though.

 

After seeing his take, I asked my acquaintances who sometimes have useful rumor sources, and no one had anything.

 

One remarked what I think we've generally been thinking: "They're probably putting too much effort into the R10 for photokina to be working on a new M body."

 

OTOH, I think the M3 upgrade from double-stroke to single-stroke came just about a year after the M3 introduction. Under that scenario, we might be due for an M8.2?

 

--HC

[xrogers]

Wasn't it sometime the winter before Photokina '06 that Leica provided six or eight useful, accurate details (I think to an LHSA audience, wasn't it?) about what the M8 was going to be?

 

I hope the R10 is going well enough that Leica can provide a bit of foreshadowing at PMA to help people rationalize putting off a DSLR decision until fall. You know, to strengthen the resolve of the faithful...

 

--clyde

[marknorton]

I do think Leica should be saying something about the R10 at PMA, a statement of direction or whatever. It's not as if it's going to steal sales from the R9 which isn't made any more.

 

The danger is that if they say nothing, some will believe they have nothing to say.

 

Me, I'd like a FF M9, a 28mm Summilux and 16mm Elmarit. And a new flash.

[sdai]

I could be wrong but I don't think that Leica will (or need to) say anything at the PMA because I doubt anyone who are seriously looking at the R10 will be distracted by anything else.

 

For me, Leica is not going to replace the Canons and Nikons ... vice versa. I could buy all of them if I'm interested.

[Jamie Roberts]

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I could be wrong but I don't think that Leica will (or need to) say anything at the PMA because I doubt anyone who are seriously looking at the R10 will be distracted by anything else.

 

For me, Leica is not going to replace the Canons and Nikons ... vice versa. I could buy all of them if I'm interested.

 

I dunno Simon--I'm very seriously interested in an R10 to replace my DMR but selling my current R equipment (and Canon stuff) would set me up nicely for a D3 system.

 

So I'd prefer it if Leica did say something about the upcoming R--if only so I can plan for my acqusitions this year (or next). With the M8 doing pretty splendidly (for me, with some things that still need fixing), I need a great--not good--SLR and the Nikon is looking, um, very, very tempting...

[sdai]

I dunno Simon--I'm very seriously interested in an R10 to replace my DMR but selling my current R equipment (and Canon stuff) would set me up nicely for a D3 system.

 

So I'd prefer it if Leica did say something about the upcoming R--if only so I can plan for my acqusitions this year (or next). With the M8 doing pretty splendidly (for me, with some things that still need fixing), I need a great--not good--SLR and the Nikon is looking, um, very, very tempting...

 

I will not buy into Nikon if I don't already have them ... they're lagging far behind in lenses - this is especially true when you already have several decent Leicas and when you think Canon isn't just sitting there - and you can't use the R lenses on a Nikon (easily).

 

Just my humble .02.

[marknorton]

Simon, "humble" is not a word I associate with you!

[norbertnl]

OTOH, I think the M3 upgrade from double-stroke to single-stroke came just about a year after the M3 introduction. Under that scenario, we might be due for an M8.2?

 

According to Stephen Gandy's list the first single stroke M3 was no. 919251, belonging to a series of Wetzlar produced M3 whose serial numbers were released on March 26, 1958. Thus, double stroke came three years after production of the M3 started. Probably the announcement of an M8.2 will take a while.

 

Best,

Norbert

;-)

[ptomsu]

I will not buy into Nikon if I don't already have them ... they're lagging far behind in lenses - this is especially true when you already have several decent Leicas and when you think Canon isn't just sitting there - and you can't use the R lenses on a Nikon (easily).

 

Just my humble .02.

 

It is and will be a totally different system - Nikon !

 

You should by no means compare with a Leica DSLR System. But if I look into my results I have from my time with the D2X, I must say they are extraordinary compared to Canon and any FT system. But compared to what I took with the DMR I must say that the DMR with the R lenses was equally good, or maybe even better, depending on what your preferences are.

 

But now, with the D3, the difference to the DMR in terms of picture quality has almost disappeared. I am sure that Leica will bring a very interesting and excellent product with the R10, but I do not expect the R10 to outperform the image quality you can get with the D3 and the Nikkor's already avalable - especially the Nonocoated ones, these are superb.

 

So Nikon or R10? This will be a tough decision, especially if you consider the potential prices of the R10 AF lenses to come. I will need to take the same decision in a year or so, as the R10 will be available. But I fear that all the goodies of the Nikon system will be hard to beat and one important thing should not be forgotten: You can for sure expect new Nikon FX models to come in periodic intervals of 12-18 months like higher resolution, smaller body etc, whereas when Leica brings the R10 this will be the model for lot of years to come. Maybe this will be more than enough for most of us, even professionals, but the better adaptation of Nikon to new technologies will be for sure something to consider seriously.

 

Tough decision

[sdai]

Simon, "humble" is not a word I associate with you!

 

It's hard not to take your comment as a compliment, Mark. LOL

 

So Nikon or R10? This will be a tough decision, especially if you consider the potential prices of the R10 AF lenses to come.

 

How hard is that, Peter? You could buy the D3 today and sell it (if you have to) when the R10 is ready.

[rosuna]

I have several professional photographers. They are Canon users and are very interested in the R10 for studio (fashion, product) photography. They will consider a serious investment in Leica R system only if 1) there are AF lenses; 2) the R10 is a high resolution system (say 20Mp or so, and no AA filter); 3) the price is affordable. The M8 is a specialized reportage camera, but the R10 cannot be a superversatile camera, like the Nikon D3 or Canon 1Ds Mark III. IMHO the R10 should be a specialized studio camera, like the medium format backs.

[ptomsu]

I have several professional photographers. They are Canon users and are very interested in the R10 for studio (fashion, product) photography. They will consider a serious investment in Leica R system only if 1) there are AF lenses; 2) the R10 is a high resolution system (say 20Mp or so, and no AA filter); 3) the price is affordable. The M8 is a specialized reportage camera, but the R10 cannot be a superversatile camera, like the Nikon D3 or Canon 1Ds Mark III. IMHO the R10 should be a specialized studio camera, like the medium format backs.

 

If this is the case, then at least the decision for me would be easy - then I would buy a D3 and never touch a R10.

 

If Leica could only tell us their direction, that would help so much

[Jamie Roberts]

I have several professional photographers. They are Canon users and are very interested in the R10 for studio (fashion, product) photography. They will consider a serious investment in Leica R system only if 1) there are AF lenses; 2) the R10 is a high resolution system (say 20Mp or so, and no AA filter); 3) the price is affordable. The M8 is a specialized reportage camera, but the R10 cannot be a superversatile camera, like the Nikon D3 or Canon 1Ds Mark III. IMHO the R10 should be a specialized studio camera, like the medium format backs.

 

I hope to heck it's more than that, and while I understand what you're saying, I couldn't disagree more.

 

To make the R10 a real contender, all they need to do in addition to your requirements is optimise the performance pipe and then you *will* have a superversatile camera with superior IQ.

 

The R10 should put performance (speed of processing, not necessarily shooting at 10 fps, and image quality in a highly portable package) right at the top of the list.

 

If Canon shooters want to buy MF cameras--slow and only good in fixed space--then they should just do that.

 

For instance, let's say they abandonded the SD interface and optimised the system for the new superfast CF cards (like the Extreme 4s). I mean, why not?

 

This could give you 'normal' 1ds3 performance with better IQ. Put it in a 5d sized package along with a priority on exceptional manual focus in adverse conditions (or assisted focus and AF) and you'll have a winner.

 

That's still a big gap between the all-singing all-dancing Canons and Nikons with live view etc...

 

If I do get a D3, I will ignore 99% of the bells and whistles And there will be a wait on Nikon wide primes. Fortunately, their zooms are good.

 

@ Peter: yes... I hope Leica tells us their direction. If they indeed are going to a studio-type camera, well, then I'll be disappointed. Unlike you, though, I do think there is an opportunity to have much better IQ and processing than Nikon or Canon...

[Jamie Roberts]

How hard is that, Peter? You could buy the D3 today and sell it (if you have to) when the R10 is ready.

 

Unless of course you would use your existing R investment to fund the Nikon switch (ok, I know you used a smiley )

[rosuna]

Leica should try to compete with medium format cameras, using a smaller format. Leica can offer superb image quality, but the 1Ds Mark III is a superfast 22MP camera with two processors inside and superavanced CMOS sensor... that is beyond reach for Leica.

[xrogers]

I'm thinking of an R camera with around 20 Mp of M8/DMR quality pixels, full frame, usable to ISO 1600 or better, no AA filter, great optics, two FPS (better would be fine, but that's about all I need), a great viewfinder, in a roughly R9 sized body. We'd have the best image quality this side of a Hasselblad in a package half the size and weight. If they get the pricing right, medium format defectors will buy as many of them as Leica can make.

 

I hope Leica builds an R that can slip right in place of existing user's R cameras without any complaints, but that is fully capable of pushing the Leica optics to their limits.

 

It's fun to speculate, but I hope Leica starts dropping a few hints. It's time.

 

--clyde

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[ptomsu]

I'm thinking of an R camera with around 20 Mp of M8/DMR quality pixels, full frame, usable to ISO 1600 or better, no AA filter, great optics, two FPS (better would be fine, but that's about all I need), a great viewfinder, in a roughly R9 sized body. We'd have the best image quality this side of a Hasselblad in a package half the size and weight. If they get the pricing right, medium format defectors will buy as many of them as Leica can make.

 

I hope Leica builds an R that can slip right in place of existing user's R cameras without any complaints, but that is fully capable of pushing the Leica optics to their limits.

 

It's fun to speculate, but I hope Leica starts dropping a few hints. It's time.

 

--clyde

 

Agree to all your list (speculations) except that I am sure they will need great IQ up till ISO 6400. And Auto ISO.

[Jamie Roberts]

Leica should try to compete with medium format cameras, using a smaller format. Leica can offer superb image quality, but the 1Ds Mark III is a superfast 22MP camera with two processors inside and superavanced CMOS sensor... that is beyond reach for Leica.

 

Yes, and the Canon has many bells and whistles I simply don't care about. But Leica can certainly compete with the image processing pipe--Canon is not a computer company so much. And they've made backwards compatibility design decisions such that the 1ds3 is a flagship but not very much different than the 1ds2.

 

So I don't think they should target medium format as their competition, because if they do that the camera will truly be neither fish nor fowl.

 

That's not to say they shouldn't give people contemplating either a 1ds3 or a Hassy pause when they make a buying decision.

 

They can do that, as I said, with pure performance and portable high IQ, and not with studio tethering (there's a problem for them!) or by trying to accomodate everything a Canon 1 series does.

 

For me, anyway, I want something that just doesn't get in my way when I'm shooting. That's hardly the description of a MF studio experience, and neither is it the description of the 1 series. You always know you're shooting with a 1 series (by the weight if nothing else!). The M8 goes a long way to filling that bill, but it's not an SLR and its reach is too limited.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but it's time for Leica to say something. Especially if you're right and people are contemplating MF purchases.