Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, petereprice said:

defect or design flaw in the M11 cameras.  

Why start there in your search for understanding?

Edited by pedaes
Link to post
Share on other sites

x

I have NOT solved this issue. I do not use a half-case and the problem appeared when it was only mildly cold (est. 45deg F).  I have not used my M11-P all winter so I can't report anything further.  I will say, however that I use MANY other cameras in cold weather and none have exhibited this problem.  It looks like an internal power distribution issue to me.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to get technical. And of course an individual camera can be faulty. But:

Ambient temperature is only relatively important Moisture and air movement play an important role as well To arrive at a  relevant conclusion about this problem you need to use wet bulb temperature. Which can be considerably lower. 
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dry-wet-bulb-dew-point-air-d_682.html

As for other cameras there is a difference in thermal dynamics between a compact all-metal body and a rubberized partly or fully composite one containing a lot of air. Leica M bodies are well known for difficult temperature management, both cold and hot. 

And another thing.  On nearly all cameras the heat-generating motherboard is right up against the LCD but on the M10 and M11 it is offset to the side.
 

This all adds up to not being surprised if CS returns a camera as being “ within specifications “. Or “konstruktionsbedingt”

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 3/28/2025 at 10:06 AM, Tseg said:

Another reason to get the M11-D.

It sounds like when it's cold outside, @KenTanaka's M11 tries to turn into an M11-D.  As far as I know, the M11 isn't supposed to do that.

Some might appreciate this uh, "feature," but Ken apparently does not. 

Edited by Herr Barnack
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 3/27/2025 at 7:25 AM, petereprice said:

ssue and a couple of other people

I was thinking to get an M11 Gloss BP or M11-P soon... But seems this is a new issue, along with other reports from the past such as fully charged batter being recognized as out of charge, freezing issue and files disappeared.. I really doubt about if I should get one...   Oh boy...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All

i’m having the same issue. Even in +10-12 degrees Celsius is becomes visible after a while of using the M11-p. Pictures come out OK. 
After several hours of not using the camera it slowly disappears. 
My thinking is that my jacket creates some charge which then influences the screen. 
I will test this with a different jacket today or even cover the screen with some card to create a barrier.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

“Stranger on the Streets” images basically also represent the problem I’m having. Over a brief period of time the dimming will converge from the center to cover -nearly- the entire screen.  The Visolux accessory viewfinder is unaffected.

Edited by KenTanaka
Link to post
Share on other sites

vor 35 Minuten schrieb KenTanaka:

“Stranger on the Streets” images basically also represent the problem I’m having. Over a brief period of time the dimming will converge from the center to cover -nearly- the entire screen.  The Visolux accessory viewfinder is unaffected.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Stranger on streets:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Do you use a screen protector?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see what Leica can do about it. As I said, the LCD is not heated from the inside of the camera by the motherboard like other cameras.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think it is a temperature problem. 
Today I tested in the following way; I left the m11-p  with lens outside in the shade on a metal table. Temperature was around 10 degrees Celsius. The camera was left switched on and power saving was set to 60min. From time to time I went outside and made a picture and checked if the lcd showed any problem. I also checked with live view and the menus if it was OK. After 2 hours or so in the fresh outside it was all fine. 
Then I took the camera and went for a walk and taking just some random pictures here and there. During this walk the camera was hanging on my neck and rubbed to front of my synthetic winter jack. 
after about 45 min I could see that the middle of the LCD became somewhat darker then the rest. 
for the remaining of the walk I kept the unit in my hand and very slowly (maybe another hour) the lcd recovered and looked normal again. 
I can’t remember that I saw the issue before since I’m using the camera on a regular base (also in pretty cold weather)

the change that took place was that I removed the protective lcd layer that was from the factory. I left it on from the start because it did not bother me. Now I think it is maybe related to this removal of the protective foil. 
 

ps. Leica claims that they don’t know about this problem. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://poostar.com/how-temperature-influences-the-performance-of-lcd-screens/

Quote

Cold temperatures can inhibit the backlight and the crystals’ ability to modulate light effectively, leading to dimmer displays. Users might find the screen less vibrant or struggle to read in low-light environments, making it a substantial usability concern in devices operating outdoors or in unheated settings

As opposed to the camera sitting somewhere sheltered, carrying it outside will expose it to moisture and wind, leading to unexpectedly low temperatures. A protective foil might provide a modicum of isolation, using the camera from time to time will warm it up a bit. A solution might be to disable auto-shutoff and keep it running all the time. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jaapv said:

https://poostar.com/how-temperature-influences-the-performance-of-lcd-screens/

As opposed to the camera sitting somewhere sheltered, carrying it outside will expose it to moisture and wind, leading to unexpectedly low temperatures. A protective foil might provide a modicum of isolation, using the camera from time to time will warm it up a bit. A solution might be to disable auto-shutoff and keep it running all the time. 

 

Good article.  I did not realize that LCD screens are so temperature sensitive.  

The M11-P operating temperature range is 32 to 104°F / 0 to 40°C.   It sounds like for photography in high or low temperature conditions, analog cameras and film are the way to go.

Edited by Herr Barnack
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, given that the LCD is not that essential when using the camera, more for setting it up and that at a not extremely low ambient temperature it remains usable, I see few problems. Especially if one keeps it sheltered under one’s coat or in a bag when not in use. You could even use one of these chemical hand warmers in the bag, provided it is not in direct contact with the camera. In high temperatures I found on the M240 that not using the EVF is helpful. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all - so I did some more testing and interestingly enough, today was a perfect day to test this out.  It was slightly windy, and about 45 degrees Fahrenheit.  Around the temp when I experience this issue. 
 

I first tested my M11-P out and the issue occurred about 10-15 minutes into the weather with the camera slung over my shoulder.  
Then I went home and grabbed my M11 Monochrom and went outside under the same conditions and so far have not encountered the same issue at all!
 

I also recall not having this issue when I had another copy of an M11-P last year in much colder conditions.  

Science and technology aside I don’t believe this is normal behavior and now that I have tested another M11 variant it either comes down to either a defect in my copy of the M11-P or a design flaw making M11-P’s or certain batches of M11-P’s sensitive to temperatures.  I also never experienced this with my M10 or M10-R. 
 

I’m going to contact Leica Support as well and see if they can weigh in.  My main issue is that if it only happens on my M11-P and not my M11 Monochrom, that is very strange.  I was hoping actually that the same issue would happen on the Monochrom because then I could chalk it up to a design of the camera.  But now based on the small number of people having this issue on this thread and the fact that I’m only seeing it on one of my Leica’s it sounds like a support issue to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...