LLL 35mm APO

[BernardC]

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5 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

okay, lets call them "look alikes". Im still not convinced that buying a non Leica lens to put on a second hand Leica body has any immediate financial benefit for Leica.

Almost immediate: it supports the price of used camera bodies, which supports the price of new bodies. 

It also sets a lower limit for the price of used lenses. For instance, you will almost never find a used Summicron 50 for the price of a new ZM Planar 50, unless the Summicron is damaged. You can argue that a particular third-party lens is "better" than a similar Leica lens (depending on your criteria, of course), but almost no one will pay more for third-party options, which justifies the high asking price for original M lenses.

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[raizans]

Would Leica prefer you buying a new Leica M11 and a Voigtländer lens, or would they prefer if you bought a used M10 and a new Leica lens?

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, raizans said:

they prefer if you bought a used M10 and a new Leica lens?

Depend on lens , Good business either way.

[Kwesi]

4 hours ago, raizans said:

Would Leica prefer you buying a new Leica M11 and a Voigtländer lens, or would they prefer if you bought a used M10 and a new Leica lens?

Good question. My sense is Leica would rather we bought both items new. I also think that part of the pricing strategy is to make their goods aspirational. Thus further inoculating their products from lower priced competitors. 

[hansvons]

On 3/16/2025 at 6:25 PM, costa43 said:

I’m no copyright expert but this doesn’t seem right for it to be that close in looks and potentially optical formula. For old lenses it’s great but for current production I’m not so sure.

 

It has been already said elsewhere several times: unlikely that LLL will risk a patent infringement lawsuit. But what they risk is their valuable reputation to be the hot kid on the block who understands Leica if that 35mm APO isn’t on par with Leica’s.

So, basically, they go all in. With a 35mm M lens that is 99% of Leica’s APO they will cement their reputation of being a serious lens maker allowing price hikes on their regular offerings. But if that lens is just another good 35mm f/2 lens, their reputation will take a hit with many unwanted consequences.

Interesting gamble. 

[costa43]

4 minutes ago, hansvons said:

It has been already said elsewhere several times: unlikely that LLL will risk a patent infringement lawsuit. But what they risk is their valuable reputation to be the hot kid on the block who understands Leica if that 35mm APO isn’t on par with Leica’s.

So, basically, they go all in. With a 35mm M lens that is 99% of Leica’s APO they will cement their reputation of being a serious lens maker allowing price hikes on their regular offerings. But if that lens is just another good 35mm f/2 lens, their reputation will take a hit with many unwanted consequences.

Interesting gamble. 

Yes, a good point. My expectation based on their previous efforts is high. I really hope they nail it but as you say, it’s an interesting move and one that could define their position in this market. 

[Smudgerer]

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2 hours ago, hansvons said:

It has been already said elsewhere several times: unlikely that LLL will risk a patent infringement lawsuit. But what they risk is their valuable reputation to be the hot kid on the block who understands Leica if that 35mm APO isn’t on par with Leica’s.

So, basically, they go all in. With a 35mm M lens that is 99% of Leica’s APO they will cement their reputation of being a serious lens maker allowing price hikes on their regular offerings. But if that lens is just another good 35mm f/2 lens, their reputation will take a hit with many unwanted consequences.

Interesting gamble. 

Whatever the price point of the "rumoured" LLL 35 APO comes into this too, actually big time. There's only so many people able or willing to shell out €8.25K for such a lens, but if LLL comes in at a pricing well under that price and even at let's say +95% of the performance of Leica's APO then I can see many will go for the LLL offering instead. One of my regular Leica dealers has three Leica 35mm APO's in stock, he told me that people "lust" after them for sure, but stumble when it comes to the price.

LLL do make some excellent lenses now for sure and with this gamble on producing their own 35 APO they cannot afford to cut corners on it's performance and quality of build.......As said I have pulled back from placing my order of the Leica 35 APO until I know more about the LLL APO, and am able to compare them, ( it's not a rumour by the way, it is coming "soon" ).

[gammarART]

This year seems to be Light Lens Lab's year of the 35mm. Just two days ago, they told that their 1.4 Asph will also be released this year. I'm curious to see how both—the fast 1.4 and the apochromatically corrected model—will perform in the end.

[intangiblethings]

On 3/19/2025 at 3:17 PM, hansvons said:

It has been already said elsewhere several times: unlikely that LLL will risk a patent infringement lawsuit. But what they risk is their valuable reputation to be the hot kid on the block who understands Leica if that 35mm APO isn’t on par with Leica’s.

So, basically, they go all in. With a 35mm M lens that is 99% of Leica’s APO they will cement their reputation of being a serious lens maker allowing price hikes on their regular offerings. But if that lens is just another good 35mm f/2 lens, their reputation will take a hit with many unwanted consequences.

Interesting gamble. 

I think you're overinflating the number of people who are even remotely familiar with Light Lens Lab as a brand. There is literally no little to no reputation to tarnish here.

We're probably the 0.01% of the Leica community that hangs out in forums. 

1. You can count on one hand the number of distributors globally
2. I imagine few people have ever seen a real life example of an LLL lens in real life
3. Even fewer probably care about the legalities of lens beef before Leica/LLL.

We're not that important guys. 

[Alberti]

On 3/18/2025 at 6:31 PM, Kwesi said:

okay, lets call them "look alikes". Im still not convinced that buying a non Leica lens to put on a second hand Leica body has any immediate financial benefit for Leica.

Look alike? One can also go too far. This is from a new LLL lens:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This romantic lll look is not the look I'm looking for. I'll instead gor for the corresponding Leica asph. offer

Edited March 20 by Alberti

[Alberti]

22 hours ago, gammarART said:

This year seems to be Light Lens Lab's year of the 35mm. Just two days ago, they told that their 1.4 Asph will also be released this year. I'm curious to see how both—the fast 1.4 and the apochromatically corrected model—will perform in the end.

I lost some appetite for a 1.4/apo asph (35AA), and now take the hurdle for the Leica offer. LLL this in some cases boost German sales.

[gammarART]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Alberti:

I lost some appetite for a 1.4/apo asph (35AA), and now take the hurdle for the Leica offer. LLL this in some cases boost German sales.

Are you going for the Apo or the Lux? Enjoy it!  

The first M lens I ever used was the original 35mm 1.4 Asph (the one with the plastic hood). And every time I look back at the shots I took with it, I see something in them that I haven't quite found in any other fast 35mm lens. I can’t even pinpoint exactly what it is. Maybe it has to do with the sharpness at 1.4—it always made the subject stand out in such a distinct, almost three-dimensional way. The trade-off, of course, is the typical Summilux 35mm busy bokeh. If the first Asph weren’t still so ridiculously expensive, I probably would have picked one up just for nostalgia. But for that price, everything else about it has to be just right, too.  

That’s why I’m really curious to see how the new LLL 35mm lenses perform this year—and, more importantly, how they render. Maybe I'll find a worthy replacement for that old love.

[costa43]

1 hour ago, intangiblethings said:

I think you're overinflating the number of people who are even remotely familiar with Light Lens Lab as a brand. There is literally no little to no reputation to tarnish here.

We're probably the 0.01% of the Leica community that hangs out in forums. 

1. You can count on one hand the number of distributors globally
2. I imagine few people have ever seen a real life example of an LLL lens in real life
3. Even fewer probably care about the legalities of lens beef before Leica/LLL.

We're not that important guys. 

I agree with many of your points but LLL exist due to their reputation within the small niche circles here and in the community. The risk to them as a business is as large as it would be if not larger than a bigger corporate.

[satijntje]

So, soon we will then have four 35mm APO lenses to choose from:
Leica,
TTartisan,
Voigtländer, 
and the LLL.

I am already curious to see the first comparisons 🙂

[gammarART]

And just like with the 50mm Summicron Apo and the Apo Lanthar, we can assume that each of these lenses will have their own strengths and—most importantly—their own unique character. Hopefully, that means there will be something for everyone. The 50mm Apo Cron, for example, maintains a certain character despite its high level of correction, whereas the 50mm Apo Lanthar feels much more clinical and character-free. Both are excellent Apo lenses, just catering to different preferences.  

I wouldn’t be surprised if the four upcoming 35mm Apo lenses are designed to serve different tastes as well, each standing on its own and appealing to different types of photographers.

[pippy]

7 hours ago, Alberti said:

Look alike? One can also go too far. This is from a new LLL lens:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This romantic lll look is not the look I'm looking for. I'll instead gor for the corresponding Leica asph. offer

Could you post the corresponding photo taken with the Leica equivalent so we can see for ourselves how much better the Leica lens coped with this situation?

Thanks in advance.

Philip.

[Smudgerer]

I know I've come across as quite "pro' LLL" in my posts on this thread, but to unbend the record a little I have to say that with my favoured Leica M focal length, 35mm, my first choices are pretty much all Leica's own in particular the Summilux 1.4 v2 and the Summicron f2 V4, for me those lenses have yet to be bettered. The same applies to my 24mm Elmarit M f2.8 ASPH and the Elmarit M 28mm 2.8 ASPH  too........What I like about a company like LLL is that the focal lengths that I do not use very much at all, like the 50mm's, become affordable as a good alternative to Leica's offerings for lenses that will not have a great deal of use for me BUT are still made to Leica's standards and can be bought new at extremely reasonable pricing.

[Elliot Harper]

On 3/19/2025 at 5:51 AM, Smudgerer said:

Whatever the price point of the "rumoured" LLL 35 APO comes into this too, actually big time. There's only so many people able or willing to shell out €8.25K for such a lens, but if LLL comes in at a pricing well under that price and even at let's say +95% of the performance of Leica's APO then I can see many will go for the LLL offering instead. One of my regular Leica dealers has three Leica 35mm APO's in stock, he told me that people "lust" after them for sure, but stumble when it comes to the price.

LLL do make some excellent lenses now for sure and with this gamble on producing their own 35 APO they cannot afford to cut corners on it's performance and quality of build.......As said I have pulled back from placing my order of the Leica 35 APO until I know more about the LLL APO, and am able to compare them, ( it's not a rumour by the way, it is coming "soon" ).

I have APO summicron 50 and paid $6500 for a brand new.

APO 35 is more expensive than 50, at least for me to get, it’s around $7000.

So for LLL APO 35 I won’t pay anything more than. $2000

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

On 3/17/2025 at 9:22 PM, vkdev said:

...there is a huge market inside China that is not rich enough to pay $10k for one lens...

There is also a huge market outside China that is not rich enough to pay $10k for one lens...

🙂

Philip.

[Kwesi]

On 3/20/2025 at 4:38 AM, Alberti said:

Look alike? One can also go too far. This is from a new LLL lens:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This romantic lll look is not the look I'm looking for. I'll instead gor for the corresponding Leica asph. offer

WOW! that's pretty bad unless that is the look that is being advertised. Fortunately, I have just a few lenses - all Leica