costa43 Posted March 16 Share #1  Posted March 16 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting releases, especially the APO. It’s the first ultra modern option coming out of LLL. It looks remarkably similar to the Leica offering by design. Guessing that the optical formula will differ. https://leicarumors.com/2025/03/15/two-new-light-lens-lab-lenses-for-leica-m-mount-50mm-f-1-5-s21-and-apo-35mm-f-2-asph.aspx/ Edited March 16 by costa43 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Hi costa43, Take a look here LLL 35mm APO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Robert Blanko Posted March 16 Share #2  Posted March 16 According to the sample photos, the bokeh seems to be harsher than that of the Leica, cf. photo 7/8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdg1371 Posted March 16 Share #3  Posted March 16 7 minutes ago, Al Brown said: These samples do not look like APO corrections at all. I assumed those images were actually from the 50 1.5, NOT from the 35 APO, and were misidentified/ mislabeled 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Blanko Posted March 16 Share #4 Â Posted March 16 Maybe the photos were indeed mislabeled. Another aspect I stumbled across is the glow in the bright part of the head of the lamp in photo 8/8. This is a significantly different signature as compared to the Leica 35 APO which is very well-corrected in said respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted March 16 Share #5  Posted March 16 (edited) Those sample photos have been posted elsewhere as being from the S21. https://www.instagram.com/p/DGjsC_-xMjc/?img_index=3&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== Edited March 16 by raizans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 16 Share #6  Posted March 16 The body of the 35mm APO looks incredibly similar to Leica’s. A very interesting development, I wonder how close in performance to the Leica lens it will be and if it will have a floating element. I don’t know much about copyright law but how close could they copy the optical design without infringing it, would a slight change of one element type or material make it ok? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW0 Posted March 16 Share #7  Posted March 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) 28 minutes ago, Lee S said: The body of the 35mm APO looks incredibly similar to Leica’s. A very interesting development, I wonder how close in performance to the Leica lens it will be and if it will have a floating element. I don’t know much about copyright law but how close could they copy the optical design without infringing it, would a slight change of one element type or material make it ok? Someone did a translation on FM of what is said in the photo. At the end of this thread.  https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1625479/72/#lastmessage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted March 16 Author Share #8  Posted March 16 (edited) I’m no copyright expert but this doesn’t seem right for it to be that close in looks and potentially optical formula. For old lenses it’s great but for current production I’m not so sure. Edited March 16 by costa43 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted March 16 Share #9 Â Posted March 16 I doubt lens barrel designs meet the criteria for copyright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 16 Share #10  Posted March 16 1 hour ago, costa43 said: I’m no copyright expert but this doesn’t seem right for it to be that close in looks and potentially optical formula. For old lenses it’s great but for current production I’m not so sure. Agree they shouldn’t be infringing patent or formulas. What they are doing with the patent expired designs is great, legal and fair. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennS Posted March 16 Share #11  Posted March 16 3 hours ago, raizans said: Those sample photos have been posted elsewhere as being from the S21. https://www.instagram.com/p/DGjsC_-xMjc/?img_index=3&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ== That bokeh is unpleasant (to my eye)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted March 16 Share #12 Â Posted March 16 14 minutes ago, Al Brown said: copyright infringement Copyright or Patent? Either way, I think the Chinese have given themselves the right to copy, and good luck with suing them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted March 16 Author Share #13  Posted March 16 (edited) If they can copy a 24mm Summilux I’ll forgive them; quickly.. Edited March 16 by costa43 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted March 16 Share #14  Posted March 16 I’m more curious about the price of LLL APO 35 summicron. Given how complacent they are recently I suspect it will be priced around $5000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted March 16 Share #15 Â Posted March 16 37 minutes ago, Elliot Harper said: I suspect it will be priced around $5000 I have my fingers crossed for $2500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 17 Share #16  Posted March 17 Leica Rumors has now corrected the sample photos label so that is says that the sample photos were indeed made with the 50mm Z21 Angenieux replica, not the 35 APO ASPH. (It does worry me a bit that some folks can't tell the difference between a 35mm lens at f/2.0 and a 50mm lens at f/1.5 - without a program. 🤪 ). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! As to copyright/patents, those apply to trademarks such "Leica," Summicron-M," or "Made in Germany"- but not "APO": everyone and her sister use that term now - not protected. They only apply to optical designs if the design is an exact copy of the patented original (see below): glass types per element, lens curves/aspherics/radii used, number and spacing and order of elements. If any of those were RE-designed (i.e. different) in the LLL, it is "New Art," and not a patent violation. Since neither LR (nor LLL) have yet revealed the actual optical design of the new LLL lens, we have no way of knowing if that is correct or not.    1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! As to copyright/patents, those apply to trademarks such "Leica," Summicron-M," or "Made in Germany"- but not "APO": everyone and her sister use that term now - not protected. They only apply to optical designs if the design is an exact copy of the patented original (see below): glass types per element, lens curves/aspherics/radii used, number and spacing and order of elements. If any of those were RE-designed (i.e. different) in the LLL, it is "New Art," and not a patent violation. Since neither LR (nor LLL) have yet revealed the actual optical design of the new LLL lens, we have no way of knowing if that is correct or not.    ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419859-lll-35mm-apo/?do=findComment&comment=5772894'>More sharing options...
Smudgerer Posted March 17 Share #17 Â Posted March 17 (edited) This is interesting..........I am, was, very close to pulling the trigger on the Leica 35mm f2 APO, but now with this news I will hold back until I find out more on LLL's possible development of their own APO 35. I have three LLL lenses in my kit and have nothing but good things to say about them, a LLL APO 35 would be hard to resist. I look forward to learning more on this. Edited March 17 by Smudgerer spelling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 17 Share #18  Posted March 17 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Al Brown said: Let’s use common sense and educated guesses here: Do all deeply concerned really think LLL will risk it all, their legacy, relations with Leica and a huge lawsuit for one reckless patent infringement? Nobody seemed this concerned regarding patents for the Voigtlander 35 APO - a lens that does 95% what Leica’s 35 APO does - when it came out. Must have something to do with the fact that Voigtlander is not a Chinese company. What relationship do LLL and Leica have? Not being Chinese has nothing to do with why no concern for the Voigtlander 35mm APO. The VM does 95% of what the Leica does but it’s a different optical and mechanical design hence why no ‘concern’. A lot of people also support what they are doing with the old lenses where legally and morally it is ok to copy expired designs/patents.  I don’t think anyone cares about them using the letters ‘APO’. If LLL can get the performance and size close to the Leica offering it will be a hit at even half the price. It’s the lens Voigtlander should have made for their 35mm APO which in my opinion is just too large (for me).  Edited March 17 by Lee S 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee S Posted March 17 Share #19  Posted March 17 40 minutes ago, Al Brown said: How do you know what optical design the LLL 35 APO is? They have not published it yet. Apologies I missed ‘if’ out of the sentence. I can’t amend now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 17 Share #20 Â Posted March 17 vor 43 Minuten schrieb Al Brown: How do you know what optical design the LLL 35 APO is? They have not published it yet. I understood Lee S's comment to relate to the optical design of the Voigtlaender 35 APO lens, not to the LLL's. The optical design of the former lens is quite different from Leica's 35 APO, so nobody was and should be concerned about patent infringement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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