M11 & M11M use case

[smuseby]

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I am a lifetime (60+ years) amateur photographer who enjoys both taking photos as well as processing for printing. I am drawn to black-and-white photography for aesthetic reasons. I have a typ 246 which I have enjoyed, but it doesn’t begin to compare with my new M11P.
I’m struggling with justifying the purchase of an M11M. On this forum, I have read that they are advocates for the monochrome approach as well as those who are fine with converting color to black-and-white. In my experience, I have found that I have a hard time throwing away color information and rarely convert color to black-and-white.

Maybe I need to seek professional help to get over throwing away color information, or alters, to suck it up and spend the money.

Edited March 1 by smuseby

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[erl]

If you shoot DNG, you are not 'throwing away' colour info with conversion. Your original file with all date stays intact. Conversion goes to tiff or jpeg. Your DNG is always intact and available for 'improved' PP later, if you wish.

[smuseby]

“Throwing away” was a poor choice of words. “Ignoring” would have been better. 

[Jeff S]

Photography is all about making choices and eliminating all distractions, whether taking the shot, editing the pic or culling a group of pics.  Color is but one of those choices (or distractions). Nobody cares what’s eliminated; only what’s left.  Nor do they care about your process. You get to choose; whatever works.

When I use the M10 Monochrom (or M Monochrom), it’s the only camera I take, and eliminates color distractions from my mindset.  But I’m not averse to converting color to B&W (always with intent) when using one of my color digital bodies. Just a different process.

[Tseg]

Just shoot raw and B&W jpeg… if the jpeg is intriguing you can either use it or work with raw to make an even better result.

[Stevejack]

The way you describe it, you're interpreting the scenes in front of you according to the equipment you're carrying. I do exactly the same thing (I have the M11 + M11M).

The majority of the time, I see monochrom vs colour exactly the same way as I see lens choice. 
Some days I'll take the 50mm, some days the 28mm. The situation in front of me will be identical no matter which lens I have, but I can't make the same photograph with the 50mm that I can with the 28mm. And sometimes I have to accept that I just can't make the shot that I want to make because I chose to take the 50 that day.

So why don't I carry a 28mm exclusively and just crop in when I want to be closer? I don't know, it's just not how I like to photograph. I see the differences - even if someone viewing the cropped image online can't see it. I don't tend to convert film portra to black and white in post either, if I haven't loaded tri-x I'll just be photographing the scene in colour instead.

The fact that you don't like converting colour to monochrome probably indicates that you interpret the scene and make your photographic decisions based on the fact that you're shooting with a colour camera. So when you worry about 'throwing away' the colour, maybe you're mourning a creative decision you made at the time and feel like you're cheating by converting? 

The M11 makes awesome colour conversions and is plenty as a sole camera. You don't 'need' anything else but if you can afford to add an M11M and if you feel creatively inspired when you use it, it's just another tool in your kit.

 

[Derbyshire Man]

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I’ve got a M11P, M11M and M11D. I hate changing lenses. I’ll typically have a 21/24 1.4, 35mm 1.4 and 50/75/90. 
 

99% of my shots are B&W. So I use the bodies entirely interchangeably. The M11D does give a different feel and due to lack of screen which I like. I tend to avoid it for lenses that are much wider than the viewfinder, so 21 or lower. The M11M comes out if it’s going to be low light or I want the ultimate in resolution (eg a shot in a forest) but I’m currently much more often seeking feeling than detail so usually it’s just low light. However the tendency to display a fresnel moire if one pushes the structure control on silver Efex means it can be disappointing and randomly so. The answer is to crush the blacks and not over do the structure so not insurmountable. Again it is better at its job than an M11P but far from essential, especially when the first thing I do is add grain back in!

[jeri]

14 hours ago, smuseby said:

"I’m struggling with justifying the purchase of an M11M. On this forum, I have read that they are advocates for the monochrome approach as well as those who are fine with converting color to black-and-white. In my experience, I have found that I have a hard time throwing away color information and rarely convert color to black-and-white."

 

The answer to your search is in the body of your question. Stick with what you have and enjoy the results.

[Chris_Jenks]

I can strongly recommend the Q2M as an alternative.

[Derbyshire Man]

I had a Q2M and really liked it, the combo of mono, IBIS and AF is a compelling one.

It's now an M11M however and that with some of the incredible lenses on offer is excellent and for me preferable. Mounted with a 21mm f1.4 or 50mm summilux whole new worlds open up.

Nothing for me however reaches the sweet spot of minimalist and enjoyable as an M11M with the summicron C 40mm F2, CV Ultron 28mm F2, or summilux 35mm FLE; stealthy, understated photographic perfection.

Edited March 6 by Derbyshire Man

[Dazzajl]

On 3/1/2025 at 12:33 AM, smuseby said:

I have a typ 246 which I have enjoyed, but it doesn’t begin to compare with my new M11P

And maybe that’s its new purpose? To offer you something very different to the 11? 

[DadDadDaddyo]

Since light has wavelengths and frequency, and since different objects reflect or absorb those frequencies differently (not surprising, really), the world appears to our eyes accompanied by color information. 

That said, as long as there have been graphic interpreters of the world, there have been monochrome images; the charcoal sketch, the ink wash, the pencil drawing, all of these and more are recognized for their interpretive point of view, one that is inherently a step further abstracted from reality, compared to attempting to mimic the way the world appears to our eyes. 

It's worth remembering that the colors we see in photographs are themselves the product of interpretation, and thus subject to judgement as to the character of that interpretation. 

I've been shooting monochrome photographs all of my photographic life. I can recall my first camera capable of shooting color film, and finding myself suddenly saddled with the need to factor color into my pictures. What? Color? What an I supposed to do with that??

So for this old guy, monochromatic photography means relaxing. Nothing to think about but light and edge, shade and values. Ahhhhhh! This is more like it!

Fundamentally, for me, the camera is the first step in the process by which I produce a physical object: a print. From the start of each shot, what I'm really thinking about is that print, and how gorgeous it will look. 

So. What kind of print do you want to make? That will make it easy to decide what sort of camera to use for the shot. 

[smuseby]

While I’m not rigid about monochrome only, I share your love of black-and-white.  There is something about carrying a monochromatic camera that elevates the experience. 

[Derbyshire Man]

2 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

 

Fundamentally, for me, the camera is the first step in the process by which I produce a physical object: a print. From the start of each shot, what I'm really thinking about is that print, and how gorgeous it will look. 

 

It's easy to lose sight of that.

[Printmaker]

When I retired I bought a Monochrom and put a 1969 vintage Summicron 50 on it. The idea was to return to basics and spend a year shooting nothing but black and white. I took about 10k images and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Many of my best surfing photos came from wading into the surf and catching the surfers as they took their final turn. 

Then I spent another year with both the M9M and the M9 in my bag. I shot less than 1k images with the M9M. Then the Monochrom went into the closet and only came out when I had something special in mind. A few years passed and the Monochrom was traded on a SL.

Did I miss the Monochrom? Sometimes. But it was more emotional than practical. Converting a color capture into black and white produces a very acceptable result. And having just one camera with a lens or two makes a walk so much more enjoyable.

While I completely get the arguments for the M11M and wouldn’t mind having one, I’m perfectly fine with my M11.
 

http//:www.barefootinkauai.com

 

[lexffm]

I bought an M 11-P and then an M11M just three weeks later. There were times when I wouldn't touch the M 11-P at all. Things are better now, but the M11M is still my first choice.

I see the use case like this: If it feels good to you, do it.

[Stef63]

On 3/1/2025 at 1:33 AM, smuseby said:

I have a typ 246 which I have enjoyed, but it doesn’t begin to compare with my new M11P.
I’m struggling with justifying the purchase of an M11M.

I’ve owned all the color and B&W digital rangefinder combinations (M9/M Monochrom, M240/M246, M10/M10M) except for the M11 and M11M twin.  I completely understand that you feel the 246 falls behind the M11.

I stopped upgrading to a similar ‘pair’ at the M10M, because the jump from the 246 was so significant, and the difference between the M10M and an M11 series so minimal. So, I’d suggest considering the M10M as well as an alternative for a new M11M. The M10M is such a great camera that you won’t regret missing out on the marginal benefits of the M11 series monochrome.

[smuseby]

I think you have captured it. I’m still on the fence. 
I used a Fujifilm XT3 for years for family candids. In probably a first, I substituted the Leica M 11P for the Fujifilm. While the Fujifilm camera was very good, I was never comfortable with the user interface. (I’m being polite). After a couple months, I am now very comfortable with the Leica interface and having the same interface for a monochrome  camera is very attractive. Using the SD card to copy settings between cameras is an elegant solution. 
Are the 10M and 11M menus identical?

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[Stef63]

The 10 series and 11 series menus and buttons share the same philosophy.  There are small visual differences (and of course, features on the 11 that do not exit on the 10), but you will feel “right at home” in the M10M menus (and buttons).

[smuseby]

Why M10M and not the current version?