BernardC Posted March 21 Share #141 Posted March 21 Advertisement (gone after registration) 30 minutes ago, LD_50 said: If I’m inaccurate and someone has information that IBIS corrects for that vibration, please provide details. Any Leica engineers reading this in their spare time? Perhaps they are on the German forum! I would certainly investigate shutter vibration if I was designing an IBIS system. The relevant variables are known, and it's easy enough to test for (does the vibration change directions if you turn the camera upside down?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 21 Posted March 21 Hi BernardC, Take a look here Sigma BF camera. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stuart Richardson Posted March 21 Share #142 Posted March 21 In my experience with the SL2, the shutter shock is still present with telephoto lenses whether or not IBIS is on. It is only when turning the electronic shutter on that that vibration disappears. It is my understanding that an electronic first curtain shutter will also stop it, but Leica never seems to include that option. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 21 Share #143 Posted March 21 43 minutes ago, BernardC said: Any Leica engineers reading this in their spare time? Perhaps they are on the German forum! I would certainly investigate shutter vibration if I was designing an IBIS system. The relevant variables are known, and it's easy enough to test for (does the vibration change directions if you turn the camera upside down?). The IBIS system does not account for shutter vibration. You can easily test this, as @Stuart Richardson mentioned. It has been investigated, and that’s why EFCS and electronic shutters are available on many cameras, to eliminate the problem. IBIS solves the same problem as a tripod. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykv Posted March 21 Share #144 Posted March 21 (edited) Elaborate exchanges of opinions here and on Miranda are laudable: additional sales of the latest 24x36 video camera for under 2k$/€ built by a lens manufacturer are good for the consumers because it gives impulses to the competition. (Of cause it can also take single frames.) imo this industry made discreetly disappear the term "recorder" as in camcorder in order to gently bring most everybody from stills to moving pictures. I wish this beautiful Sigma BF all the best and hope it'll be a success, so that one of the big three will also market beautiful cameras one day. In this forum us males are the vast majority, but among all consumers the sales figures are probably more balanced. Sigma sure did their research before launching this model. Edited March 21 by nykv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 21 Share #145 Posted March 21 2 hours ago, nykv said: Elaborate exchanges of opinions here and on Miranda are laudable: additional sales of the latest 24x36 video camera for under 2k$/€ built by a lens manufacturer are good for the consumers because it gives impulses to the competition. (Of cause it can also take single frames.) imo this industry made discreetly disappear the term "recorder" as in camcorder in order to gently bring most everybody from stills to moving pictures. I wish this beautiful Sigma BF all the best and hope it'll be a success, so that one of the big three will also market beautiful cameras one day. In this forum us males are the vast majority, but among all consumers the sales figures are probably more balanced. Sigma sure did their research before launching this model. Everything about the BF says this isn’t a response to market research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykv Posted March 21 Share #146 Posted March 21 43 minutes ago, LD_50 said: Everything about the BF says this isn’t a response to market research. It is: outside of the box. Old thinking: only men are the market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 22 Share #147 Posted March 22 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, nykv said: It is: outside of the box. Old thinking: only men are the market. Market research doesn't often lead to outside of the box designs. The majority of buyers' preferences lead to products that look and function the same. Outside of the box designs come from problem solving and creative thinking. Unfortunately I don't see many areas where the BF solves problems common to the competition (perhaps internal storage would be one, lack of menus is another but the UI looks to require a lot of slow and deliberate use of screens). You're implying the design is for women. That doesn't make sense unless you're saying women value this camera's distinguishing features (appearance and billet frame, convoluted UI) over features the vast majority of cameras include for a reason (a viewfinder, IBIS, either a mechanical shutter or a very fast sensor readout or both, decent battery life, two strap attachments, etc). Why would they? I really appreciate the aesthetic and billet construction but it misses out on the basic functionality I need (viewfinder, shutter, strap attachments) and want (IBIS, hot shoe, battery life) and then for no good reason includes sharp edges to make the ergonomics less than ideal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted March 22 Share #148 Posted March 22 The term "market research" is often used in a very disparaging way. It's shorthand for copy-cat products that are poorly thought-out, and that checkbox every "feature" already available on competing products. It doesn't have to be that way, of course. I'm sure that Sigma talk to photographers every day, even on their days off. They are also well aware of every camera made by their competitors/partners. In that sense they do market research, but not in the pejorative way. Think of it like this: what is Sigma's incentive to create a camera that is a copy of a Sony A7? They couldn't possibly build it as cheaply, and it would irritate Sony. Besides, if you work at Sigma you can just buy an A7 and put some Sigma lenses on it, there's no need to invest hundreds of millions of yen, and years of your life. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 22 Share #149 Posted March 22 1 hour ago, BernardC said: Think of it like this: what is Sigma's incentive to create a camera that is a copy of a Sony A7? They couldn't possibly build it as cheaply, and it would irritate Sony. Besides, if you work at Sigma you can just buy an A7 and put some Sigma lenses on it, there's no need to invest hundreds of millions of yen, and years of your life. What makes us think Sigma couldn’t create a compelling camera that has many features that photographers want, while also differentiating in a way that makes it something other than a copy cat? You could change “camera” to “lens” and that’s essentially their current business model. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 22 Share #150 Posted March 22 1 hour ago, LD_50 said: What makes us think Sigma couldn’t create a compelling camera that has many features that photographers want, while also differentiating in a way that makes it something other than a copy cat? You could change “camera” to “lens” and that’s essentially their current business model. Sigma already do that with cameras. The critical thing though is in the "features that photographers want". You've been around long enough to know that if you ask two photographers what they want you'll get three different answers. If you're Sony, Canon or Nikon then you really do have to include all the features that are commonly demanded by amateurs in each price and experience bracket. If you're Sigma, Leica or Hasselblad, you are under no such constraint, and can decide on a distinctive design with distinct features, and decide on a price that will make you a profit if you sell a certain limited number - it will not be the zillions of sales that the majors aim for and must achieve. 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrichie Posted March 22 Share #151 Posted March 22 5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: Sigma already do that with cameras. The critical thing though is in the "features that photographers want". You've been around long enough to know that if you ask two photographers what they want you'll get three different answers. If you're Sony, Canon or Nikon then you really do have to include all the features that are commonly demanded by amateurs in each price and experience bracket. If you're Sigma, Leica or Hasselblad, you are under no such constraint, and can decide on a distinctive design with distinct features, and decide on a price that will make you a profit if you sell a certain limited number - it will not be the zillions of sales that the majors aim for and must achieve. exactly, and if the functions do not meet your needs or the price is too high, then you are not the customer. It is a little disappointing when there is a product you love for so many reasons but falls short on some functions you want [ EVF, mechanical shutter, strap holes, articulating screen, IBIS, comfortable to hold, rational menus] . You either compromise or buy something else. I, as my father always said, will cut of my nose to spite my face, so will buy the BF simply because of the aesthetics and then spend all my time thinking why did they not put in an EVF every time I use it, then leave it in the drawer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 23 Share #152 Posted March 23 A lot of people (me included) seemed to think the Hasselblad X1/X2 series was beautiful industrial design. It is also (famously) fashioned from a solid block of aluminium, something Sigma seems to think is unique to the BF. I'm totally on board with beautiful designs, as long as the workflow doesn't suffer. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 23 Share #153 Posted March 23 8 hours ago, Chris W said: A lot of people (me included) seemed to think the Hasselblad X1/X2 series was beautiful industrial design. It is also (famously) fashioned from a solid block of aluminium, something Sigma seems to think is unique to the BF. I'm totally on board with beautiful designs, as long as the workflow doesn't suffer. The X1 was not a single piece body. The top plate is separate from the rest of the frame. I’m not sure about X2 but assume it’s the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 23 Share #154 Posted March 23 And of course there was the Leica T series 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benqui Posted March 23 Share #155 Posted March 23 I really love the design of the Sigma BF. Kudos for their courage to produce such a niche camera. It is a beauty ….. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 29 Share #156 Posted March 29 On 3/23/2025 at 5:50 PM, LD_50 said: The X1 was not a single piece body. The top plate is separate from the rest of the frame. I’m not sure about X2 but assume it’s the same. This is just the Hassy marketing. Quote: Milled from high-quality, solid aluminum Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted March 29 Share #157 Posted March 29 3 hours ago, Chris W said: This is just the Hassy marketing. Quote: Milled from high-quality, solid aluminum I’ve seen it. The individual pieces are milled, but it’s not a single piece milled body like the BF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 29 Share #158 Posted March 29 In the end it doesn't matter does it? The main feature of a camera is how well it takes photos, not whether it's a single piece or a few pieces of milled aluminium. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeping_a_balance Posted March 31 Share #159 Posted March 31 Has anyone received their BF yet? any comments? thoughts? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benqui Posted April 13 Share #160 Posted April 13 Am 31.3.2025 um 08:39 schrieb keeping_a_balance: Has anyone received their BF yet? any comments? thoughts? Thanks In Germany it is not yet available. Maybe at the end of April! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.