Is Leica losing its' touch with new releases?

[PeterBoyadjian]

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I sold off all my Leica gear and went with the A7r5 and 28-70f2. 

Sony worked some magic with that lens. But, I am a working photographer. I needed a camera that just works. 

I was having issues with the SL3's TTL and metering system. AF for video was disappointing too. 

Still love the APO lenses, that 28 and 75 render better than anything. 

Bought and sold the Q43, might buy another for personal work. 

Honestly Leicas are best for personal stuff, for work....just use what gets you in and out. 

 

[JNK100]

No 

[JohnathanLovm]

May I know what makes SL3-S disappointed? Last time I compared with S5IIX and A9 I found SL3-S have some advantages over them.

Edited February 21 by JohnathanLovm

[ALScott]

On 2/18/2025 at 2:54 AM, IkarusJohn said:

Umm, I think almost every member of this forum would agree with you.  At some stage.  That’s why they’re here.  Post back when you have a failure of a lens or camera, and it has to go back to Wetzlar.  Or better still, when you buy the M12 as an early adopter …

 

I have zero issue with anybody posting about an actual problem or actual experience that has gone poorly.  I would totally support anyone in a legitimate issue.  Even though it is a "forum," as I have been told, it's the seemingly never ending expression of one disapproval or another of Leica for what they have "done" or "didn't do" by Leica owners and a ton of non-owners, even testers in a shop.  It's just odd to me.  I have found those here who seem to be reasonable and fair in my view and most of the time I only pay attention to them.  However, at times like the release of anything new, I allow myself to get sucked into the negativity.  I think I am an early adopter already.... Last March I bought a Q3 and loved it so much (sorry, feel like I have to apologize for liking it) I then bought an SL3 then an M11P and and on day one got an SL3-S.  Again, I have to apologize because, touch wood, I have had zero issues with any of them.  Any issue I did have was due to me, not Leica. (sorry again).  Funny thing is, I wanted to get back into shooting and documenting my life and family and all I really looked at was the Fuji x100vi but couldn't get it  and then only Sony until I literally stumbled across the Q3.  I went with it purely for its size and abilities and I am very glad I did.  I have never edited files less than I have with the files from all of the Leica cameras, not even close.  Also, I was a photo journalist with Canon and Nikon and had failures with both and I can't say that either blew me away with getting me back to where I was.  In fact, when I did have failures whatever it was became a paper weight and I bought new. Back then I sure as h*ll couldn't afford that but I had no choice.  If you live in a big city with all of those resources in the same city it may be great, but I never have, never.  So, I had to do whatever I could in order to keep working.  Canon or Nikon weren't a few blocks away and three to four weeks to get me something was as good as nothing.

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, ALScott said:

I have zero issue with anybody posting about an actual problem or actual experience that has gone poorly.  I would totally support anyone in a legitimate issue.  Even though it is a "forum," as I have been told, it's the seemingly never ending expression of one disapproval or another of Leica for what they have "done" or "didn't do" by Leica owners and a ton of non-owners, even testers in a shop.  It's just odd to me.  I have found those here who seem to be reasonable and fair in my view and most of the time I only pay attention to them.  However, at times like the release of anything new, I allow myself to get sucked into the negativity.  I think I am an early adopter already.... Last March I bought a Q3 and loved it so much (sorry, feel like I have to apologize for liking it) I then bought an SL3 then an M11P and and on day one got an SL3-S.  Again, I have to apologize because, touch wood, I have had zero issues with any of them.  Any issue I did have was due to me, not Leica. (sorry again).  Funny thing is, I wanted to get back into shooting and documenting my life and family and all I really looked at was the Fuji x100vi but couldn't get it  and then only Sony until I literally stumbled across the Q3.  I went with it purely for its size and abilities and I am very glad I did.  I have never edited files less than I have with the files from all of the Leica cameras, not even close.  Also, I was a photo journalist with Canon and Nikon and had failures with both and I can't say that either blew me away with getting me back to where I was.  In fact, when I did have failures whatever it was became a paper weight and I bought new. Back then I sure as h*ll couldn't afford that but I had no choice.  If you live in a big city with all of those resources in the same city it may be great, but I never have, never.  So, I had to do whatever I could in order to keep working.  Canon or Nikon weren't a few blocks away and three to four weeks to get me something was as good as nothing.

You don’t have to apologise for anything.

Let me put this another way.  People buy a Leica product (I don’t really care what it is) for any number of reasons.  If every Leica product was a dud, most would toss it in a bin and move on (get a refund, whatever - why persist with a bad product).  But, the thing is, Leica isn’t a bad product.

I have owned a host of Leica cameras and lenses over more than a decade.  The majority here, longer than that.  More than half the digital cameras I have bought have failed.  I didn’t buy the M11, and I’m pleased I didn’t.  That’s not a good track record.  So, why do I still use my SL(601), TL2, M-A, Monochrom, M10-D, and a host of lenses?  Then, why do people bother posting about the problems they have?  If their Leicas were duds, why stick around and complaint?

Then you pop along, telling everyone with complaints to move on.  Really?  Perhaps the people are complaining, in the main, because they have a long track record with Leica.  They have experienced the good and the bad, and they’re still here.  Good, you love Leica.  So do the people disappointed, financially impacted, and wishing Leica could do better.

We pay for it.  Show some respect.

[Chris W]

On 2/20/2025 at 10:09 AM, Al Brown said:

Hasselblad X2D has none of both, just sayin’

The X1D2 has quirks. The autofocus hunts quite often. The 45p lens has a long standing issue that when you mount it the body says 'no lens detected'. You have to unmount and mount it a few times to get it to work.

It's a known issue that has never been resolved.

[Chris W]

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On 2/20/2025 at 6:00 AM, PeterBoyadjian said:

 

Honestly Leicas are best for personal stuff, for work....just use what gets you in and out. 

 

Sure. As a musician I have boring professional tools that never fail to get the job done. I also own tools that I enjoy more to use.

[Chris W]

On 2/17/2025 at 10:46 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

 

Leicas are an emotional purchase. No, the M doesn't have any special sauce and yes you can find lenses as good as the APO's.

I disagree. I have bought and sold multiple brands of camera over the last 20 years and keep coming back to Leica. For two reasons. The simple and clean industrial design, including the simple, easy to use menu system. Second reason - the rangefinder focussing system. None of it is 'emotional'. It is the way I prefer to work.

I have bought all of my leica cameras at least a couple of years after they were first launched.

I have had an SL. Thought it was too big and bulky to carry around. 

I've had a Q. Absolutely loved it. Brilliant image quality. I just didn't like shooting 28mm all the time.

I've had an M8 (crop? No thanks), an M240 and now an M10.

Most of the people complaining about Leica QC seem to have purchased an SL3 or M11 soon after their introduction.

In the least I would be reading the SL and M forums here before I purchased one. Many times people are reporting issues.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, Chris W said:

I disagree. I have bought and sold multiple brands of camera over the last 20 years and keep coming back to Leica. For two reasons. The simple and clean industrial design, including the simple, easy to use menu system. Second reason - the rangefinder focussing system. None of it is 'emotional'. It is the way I prefer to work.

I have bought all of my leica cameras at least a couple of years after they were first launched.

I have had an SL. Thought it was too big and bulky to carry around. 

I've had a Q. Absolutely loved it. Brilliant image quality. I just didn't like shooting 28mm all the time.

I've had an M8 (crop? No thanks), an M240 and now an M10.

Most of the people complaining about Leica QC seem to have purchased an SL3 or M11 soon after their introduction.

In the least I would be reading the SL and M forums here before I purchased one. Many times people are reporting issues.

 

Actually my M11 and SL3's are the most reliable Leicas I've had. Apart from the software thing, which had a workaround and I didn't fall foul of anyway. Really the SL platform has been fine after a few initial software glitches and a single hardware issue.. M's not so much. I got my M11 on launch day and have had very few issues. Mostly card compatibility and a slowdown with certain review settings. First was a change of card. Second was a menu change. Both were easy and worked for me. Others, lots of others have not been so lucky.

But my experience:

M8: Had to buy filters for every lens. This was before Leica acknowledged the IR issue so I was out of luck, and pocket.

M9's (2 bodies) 5 sensor replacements. 2 cracked 3 delaminated. 1 failed shutter. Still needed IR filters with some lenses.

M 240. RF was out out of the box.

M-P No issues.

M10. RF was out, out of the box.

M10R. No issues. M10M No issues.

M11. OK but there's no doubt to the ussues many had with them. M11M. No issues.

SL(601) flash didn't fire in TTL mode between 1/50 and 1/200th. But was fine with manual third party triggers. How does this even get to release?? 

SL2 Sensor out of alighnment. Leica refused warranty. But equalised when I dropped my 16-35 and they did a free repair anyway.

35 lux M: Out of spec new.

90 Summarit. Out of spec. Returned 7 months later full of dust. #3 months later returned dust fre but out of spec again. 3 trips to Germany for that one.

28 Summicron. decentered. Swapped

I could go on. There are more, unfortunately. I wouldn't judge your Leica experience as normal. And sure, I've had other brands go down. And like you I wasn't near a city. But even with shipping it was around 4 weeks, max. I get that Leica is a boutique hand made brand. I actually prepared to put up with this stuff. I like the brand. I own more of it than most. But factually it's the least reliable brand I own.

It is possible to like a brand and acknowledge that reliability issues exist and tarnish one's affection for it somewhat. I'm still likely to take a pair of Q3's and a pair of SL3's on my next trip. And a Panasonic S1R2 if they arrive in time. Wish the SL3 had EFCS for the shutter shock issues.

As for the special sauce. I like M's as well. And I agree that there's an impact on how you shoot when you use different gear. But they don't make better images than any other brand. There's no magic pixi dust rendering in the lenses more than any other brand. Different? Sure. Better? Not so much. I also have strong preferences for cameras that get out of the way and I think often less is more. I just think, in the right mind, I can take decent images with any camera.

Gordon

Gordon

[Coppereye]

I came on today to ask a different question but got caught up in this thread.  
 

I’ve been through the rusting problem with the S (006) which Leica agreed to fix for me.  I’ve had both the 240 ( twice) and the M10 but have now gone back to the M3 SS with a collapsible 50mm and a 90mm Elmar.  

The S has gone and I have moved to the SL I have problems handling things as the S was just too heavy.

I also have a Q purchased not long after release that I won’t trade or upgrade.

what drew me to Leica was the “look” that Leica images had.  I started out with Canon  5 Ds. The 5D mark 2 had the facility to adjust the focussing point because some lenses ( the 24-70mm L ) tended to back focus.

I have tried the Hassie X1D - and that was buggy as hell! Beautiful images when everything worked.

I view is that photography is basically using the ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture to produce a image of good quality.  If it’s a good or bad image then that’s upto the photographer.  
 

In common with everything else Leica are adding more and more bits of functionality that perhaps seem a good idea and that can have a knock on effect on other existing features.  
 

That’s what happens when you develop a system ( I spent over 30 years in systems design and management ) The new stuff is tested but seemingly very few test in a real word scenario.  

Im my opinion rather than bolting bits on the software that drives the camera. They should rebuild the software so that everything works together.  The menu list gets longer and longer.  

OK software wasn’t responsible for the sensor rust on the CCD sensors but look at the forum for the new Leica Lux iPhone grip - this is beset with problems. It’s currently unavailable on line - sold out or pulled out because it doesn’t work!

 

[PetPhoto]

you can find a problem with just about every digital camera these days. 

 

I think i took 20 shots with my nikon 7500 last year.  I took perhaps 30 rolls of film last year. all 36 exposure or larger. 

That nikon has CRAP autofocus..  with most lenses. The nikon 100-300 lens i have, if i aim at a tree in a mild breeze, the autofocus will use half of the battery capacity and actually CRASH the autofucus system if i dont swtich to manual focus mode.

 

That nikon has crap dectection modes. They may work in a store or lab, but if I am trying to get a shot on a particular bird, and have manually zoomed in on that bird,,, anytime another bird gets in frame, the damn camera automatically changes focus to the other bird in frame.. normally as i hit the shutter release..

 

Sure that nikon 7500 has a cutesy lcd display that swings out, but in normal sunlight i cannot see it unless I am wearing a hat and the LCD is in shadow. Sunglasses make it turn solid black, and the sunlight makes it a giant mirror in the face.   And its such a nifty device that If i use the camera in mirrorless mode.. i cannot have the lcd panel touching the camera body, or the heat buildup according to the manual warnings has an 80% risk of damaging the LCD panel, OR the image processor chips.

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

On 2/15/2025 at 7:16 AM, CptSlevin said:

Hello!
I would like to start a controversial topic.
Latest Leica releases except from Q3, Q3 43 (which are very hard to spoil) are kind of a mixed bag.

Leica M11 huge freezing issues, unacceptable level of miscommunication and problem solving with bricking cameras.
For a main flagship camera it's very bad reputational achievement on the level of M9 CCD corrosion issue.

Leica SL3 was a fairly nice launch, but more to be desired with the camera, firmware issues, not present functions which are present in SL2, AF speed didn't hit any stars, horrendous EVF blackouts.
I had a feeling like SL3 was rushed to market due to competition with Panasonic and camera is still in beta.

Leica SL3S is on another level of disappointment, it's past gen camera (refurbished Lumix S5IIX) with less hybrid features which can't compete with SL2S, because of the price factor, lack of new features, same sensor, worse IBIS.
It didn't have any improvements except from AF which is still in beta stage and doesn't live up to other manufacturers.

I know that Leica is accumulating the Highest Revenue in Its Entire 100-Year History, but at what cost?
https://petapixel.com/2024/11/20/leica-just-recorded-the-highest-revenue-in-its-entire-100-year-history/

Quality of their releases is mediocre at best, they don't innovate, they have low QC (used to be stellar) and a lot of issues with firmware that can brick cameras.
I still see people buying used M10s because they are reliable, old lenses like summiluxes had more magic in their optical schemes, new lenses tend to be clinical in order to resolve 60mp sensors.

Your opinion?

In my opinion Leica has become luxury. As any luxury product it is not about performance or been reliable. 

[Coppereye]

In some ways I liken Leica to Apple.  Both are at the high ticket price end of the market,with low depreciation. but both are seeing the competition innovating faster than they are.

i will say however that Apple has continued to produce their quality products that matches their price tag ( my opinion ok ).

Leica are releasing things rapidly and in different product areas Range Finder, Mirrorless, Fized lens (Q), Monochrom then we have watches that are priced around the APO lenses, their Lux grip seems a joke.  Looks good in the glossies  but not by the losers.  
 

Leica stick to what you are good at, you have been for 100 years.  Quality cameras and lenses that have superb image quality. I am using an M3 SS from 1954 that still looks superb - will the M11, M10, SL range be useable in 69 years!  

[PetPhoto]

The fact that Leica helped Sigma with their new BF clone of the CL camera really drives  home that Leica has lost its touch with reality. They work with other companies, that cell phone camera lens comes to mind.. that do not increase the value or technological level of the Leica Camera line. 

 

I almost want to bet that the CL was discontinued as part of the co development with Sigmo for that BF camera. 

When it comes to digital I am firmly NOT a leica person, i need an optical view finder. And as a result, leica products just arent doing what I need

[Coppereye]

2 minutes ago, PetPhoto said:

When it comes to digital I am firmly NOT a leica person, i need an optical view finder. And as a result, leica products just arent doing what I need

I think it’s good that one brand doesn’t dominate the market.  What does make me laugh is how behind the scenes supposed rival brands work together when they openly compete.  Leica and Panasonic - for years I used a Panasonic bridge and recommended them to people who asked because their lenses were made by Leica.  I don’t know if they still do but Samsung used to make the iPad screens.

I choose Leica because of the history, the renowned image quality but also the simplicity.  This is why I enjoy using the M3 not even a light meter!  
 

There will always be different ( and sometimes angry ) views of which brand is best - I always believe that if we all thought the same way, life would be very boring.  

[PetPhoto]

11 hours ago, Coppereye said:

I think it’s good that one brand doesn’t dominate the market.  What does make me laugh is how behind the scenes supposed rival brands work together when they openly compete.  Leica and Panasonic - for years I used a Panasonic bridge and recommended them to people who asked because their lenses were made by Leica.  I don’t know if they still do but Samsung used to make the iPad screens.

I choose Leica because of the history, the renowned image quality but also the simplicity.  This is why I enjoy using the M3 not even a light meter!  
 

There will always be different ( and sometimes angry ) views of which brand is best - I always believe that if we all thought the same way, life would be very boring.  

If you say those things on photrio, you will suddenly have a non active account on that site. 

 

Alot of places will hang ya if you are against or cant use the LCD panel crap

[LocalHero1953]

14 hours ago, PetPhoto said:

The fact that Leica helped Sigma with their new BF clone of the CL camera really drives  home that Leica has lost its touch with reality. They work with other companies, that cell phone camera lens comes to mind.. that do not increase the value or technological level of the Leica Camera line. 

 

I almost want to bet that the CL was discontinued as part of the co development with Sigmo for that BF camera. 

When it comes to digital I am firmly NOT a leica person, i need an optical view finder. And as a result, leica products just arent doing what I need

How do you make the BF to be a clone of the CL? Different shape, full frame, no EVF..........

And if you want an optical viewfinder on a digital Leica, you can have a M or S. Of course no one has to want a Leica.

Edited March 5 by LocalHero1953

[andybarton]

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/bf/
 

It looks a lot like a Leica of about 10 years ago. The one where they spent 45 minutes polishing the aluminium body by hand, or something <cough>.

If you want a camera that works like a phone with a lens stuck on the front, it looks pretty capable to me. 

[LocalHero1953]

51 minutes ago, andybarton said:

It looks a lot like a Leica of about 10 years ago.

Or a Zeiss ZX1 - which was full frame, though it had an EVF.

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Hallo,

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[FrozenInTime]

The BF will become a collectable ... not because it is a good camera, but as it has that combination of design statement and limited numbers.

Just nine a day : https://petapixel.com/2025/02/25/sigma-can-make-just-nine-bf-cameras-a-day/